Vail Resorts is buying Peak Resorts.

[SnowRock]

This change was only due to the loss of A-Basin and the early/late skiing it provided. Vail realized that for the Colorado local they had to counter this, and Keystone early with its snowmaking, and Breck late with its elevation was the plan. I would not interpret this as a company-wide, national effort to offer early and/or late skiing. There was certainly no added length to Stowe's season, and they had the snow to do so!

But when did AIG push stowe into may? Since ive been heading there fairly regularly the past 15 years, they basically always close with 80% or more of the mountain open. It about people not snow

On that note, as someone living outside NYC with two annual family trips to Stowe that basically locked me into the epic the past few years, this gives me even more ways to lower my per day number… but do worry about what this will mean for crowds at all the VT mountains in play. Conversely… nice to Have Hunter for when I can manage a midweek day trip or even a few hours on a weekend. I would normally buy a triple play for those trips so much prefer not having to spend that extra coin.

Stowe hasn’t quite been the Armageddon predicted when bought by vail originally but was way more crowded early (time not season) versus years past IMO. I used to feel like the 7:30 am weekend open allowed you to cheat the system if you got up and got out. But this year (admittedly good snow year) the crowds definitely seemed to be there earlier… even on what wouldn’t really be consider true powder days.

 

[BenedictGomez]

A few HUNDRED dollars more. I'm a local. I ride like twice a week. Maybe take 1 or 2 overnight trips a year to Smuggs. I have a gang of friends who do the same. I few HUNDRED dollars more hits hard.

If you take those 1 or 2 overnight trips to Stowe instead of Smuggs, you'd come out ahead financially now. That's part of what I meant, it will change consumer behaviour, but most people with net save $$.

I would not interpret this as a company-wide, national effort to offer early and/or late skiing. There was certainly no added length to Stowe's season, and they had the snow to do so!

Exactly. Park City is another decent example, it didn't matter how many locals they pizzed off this year, Vail still closed Park City on the scheduled date with many feet of snow covering the trails. Vail is ruthlessly efficient in the pursuit of profit, and they dont care about your feelings. At all. LOL

 

[VTKilarney]

Unless Vail is insanely desperate to make a play for the Montreal market, it looks like they will not be interested in Jay Peak now.

Jay is going to be sold without Burke. The receiver has already said this.

Frankly, I think that this may be the death of Burke. They simply can't compete with the other passes that are going to be out there. And the locals/condo owners can't sustain the mountain. The hotel is losing money as it is.

 

[drjeff]

Exactly. Park City is another decent example, it didn't matter how many locals they pizzed off this year, Vail still closed Park City on the scheduled date with many feet of snow covering the trails. Vail is ruthlessly efficient in the pursuit of profit, and they dont care about your feelings. At all. LOL

Agree!

With respect to my Mount Snow home area, we always penciled in our families "set" ski season as the weekend before Thanksgiving through to the 1st or 2nd weekend of April (depending on when Easter fell that year), and occasionally get an extra weekend or 2 in either side of those dates depending on the weather.

Now, under Vail, my hunch is that we won't be thinking about home hill turns prior to the 3rd weekend in November or after the 2nd weekend in April, as an option anymore. Part of me is OK with that (certainly helps with planning around the schedules of our household) and part of me will likely be a bit upset that I may end up loosing a couple potential weekends skiing at the home hill in the "fringe" seasons.

Time will tell with how Vail chooses to operate their newly expanded Eastern stable of resorts, especially with early and late season operations...

 

[urungus]

Vail is changing that plan, starting with Breckenridge and keystone this year. It will be interesting to see how the change the opening / closing schedule for wildcat next year.

Also Mount Snow ... hope they will continue to take advantage of the new snowmaking system to open early in the season... but not sure now that Vail has taken over

 

[Edd]

Mt Snow and Okemo being on the same pass is weird to think about, for some reason.


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[drjeff]

Unless Vail is insanely desperate to make a play for the Montreal market, it looks like they will not be interested in Jay Peak now.

Jay is going to be sold without Burke. The receiver has already said this.

Frankly, I think that this may be the death of Burke. They simply can't compete with the other passes that are going to be out there. And the locals/condo owners can't sustain the mountain. The hotel is losing money as it is.

Unfortunately I get that feeling that Burke's best chances will be if a few alums of Burke Mtn Academy, many of whom have made a nice living for themselves on Wall Street after their BMA and college racing days, band together out of a sense of nostalgia and commitment to BMA (in particular these days as they REALLY have taken some major steps forward off of what was already one of the best ski academies in the country), so that their kids will have the chance to have the BMA experiences and connections that they did, and run it somewhat like a Mad River Glen style co-op. Now if the hotel could be either excluded or shrunk in size to say serve as the dorm and classroom facilities for BMA, without significantly adding to the cost of any potential deal, then there's certainly a decent chance of something like that happening

 

[SnowRock]

Both Snow and Okemo have been doing a good job at the early season game the past few years. Okemo for all its worts has been a go to for me early of late. Was gravy last year with them on the epic.

 

[VTKilarney]

The most likely scenario is that BMA runs the training hill at Burke and nothing else opens - at least to the public. The hotel will be used as dorms and for visiting racers, but only a portion of the hotel will be used for those purposes.

 

[drjeff]

Also Mount Snow ... hope they will continue to take advantage of the new snowmaking system to open early in the season... but not sure now that Vail has taken over

As Vail is seemingly learning in the CO market, having an early and late season player in the market is important. Let's not forget that the potential Epic pass market that lives along the I-95 corridor from Boston down to DC is far greater than the Denver market, so I would imagine that they will have some plans for trying to compete especially in the early season with what IKON passholders get as long as Killington, Sunday River and even Loon are part of that pass.

Not sure exactly how much of a late season player Vail will choose to be in the East. Killington, Jay, Sugarbush and Sugarloaf all have seemed to do OK in that market, and not sure if Vail will choose to invest in 1 of their Eastern properties in a way to market and make enough snow to go a few weeks deeper into April and maybe the beginning of May....

 

[mbedle]

If you take those 1 or 2 overnight trips to Stowe instead of Smuggs, you'd come out ahead financially now. That's part of what I meant, it will change consumer behaviour, but most people with net save $$.



Exactly. Park City is another decent example, it didn't matter how many locals they pizzed off this year, Vail still closed Park City on the scheduled date with many feet of snow covering the trails. Vail is ruthlessly efficient in the pursuit of profit, and they dont care about your feelings. At all. LOL

But there does seem to be a change in Vails attitude towards early and late season operations at some resorts. Who knows, maybe they will test the waters at some of their resorts outside of CO.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019...tm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=recirc-more-site

 

[mbedle]

The most likely scenario is that BMA runs the training hill at Burke and nothing else opens - at least to the public. The hotel will be used as dorms and for visiting racers, but only a portion of the hotel will be used for those purposes.

It has to sell to someone, it can't stay under a receivership forever. If the price goes low enough, someone will pick it up an attempt to make a run with it.

 

[slatham]

I'd be more surprised if Mt Snow early season plans change vs. April close. I think there is more bang for the buck pushing for early opening than staying open as late as possible. That said April close is typically the first or second weekend of April, so at most the locals lose a weekend. IMHO.

 

[VTKilarney]

It has to sell to someone, it can't stay under a receivership forever. If the price goes low enough, someone will pick it up an attempt to make a run with it.

Lots of businesses go unsold if they are money losing propositions. There is no "right price" for something that loses money and has no hope of turning a profit.

 

[Smellytele]

I'd be more surprised if Mt Snow early season plans change vs. April close. I think there is more bang for the buck pushing for early opening than staying open as late as possible. That said April close is typically the first or second weekend of April, so at most the locals lose a weekend. IMHO.

Wildcat was Peaks later season offering

 

[Smellytele]

Epic offers a Military Pass which is crazy cheap. I’d previously thought it was for active and retirees only but it appears to be for veterans also, which I am. This post from Wildcat may be implying I could get a refund if I trade in the Peak Traveler for an Epic Military. If true, that would blow my mind.

View attachment 25375

active and retired 129. veteran 529

 

[Edd]

Wildcat was Peaks later season offering

Yeah, it makes no sense to change that. One lift, few staff, and a good chunk of terrain weather permitting.

 

[x10003q]

Lots of businesses go unsold if they are money losing propositions. There is no "right price" for something that loses money and has no hope of turning a profit.

There is a price where Burke makes money - although it could be less than zero.......:blink:

 

[Edd]

active and retired 129. veteran 529

Yeah, saw that after posting. No refund for me but still a deal I won’t complain about. Mind not blown after all.

 

[gregnye]

RIP Wildcat---May 2019.

Will Vail keep it the same anti-grooming/hardcore vibe?

Sad that the skiing industry is now one large company. If I were New Hampshire I'd force them to give up Wildcat. But then again I'm from Mass, and New Hampshire probably loves huge businesses taking over their state, screwing over locals.