Vail to buy Stowe?

[KD7000]

I can't find anywhere that a new parking lot of significant size could be put in near the Toll House. IMHO, they would have to build a 7 story parking garage where the tennis courts are to have enough parking spaces to make an impact there.

I think adding a partial deck over the main lot would be more effective (see Jay Peak's main lot) and more likely to get environmental approval.

Right across the street from the Toll House area is already a small lot. They'd need to expand that, figure out how to get people across the road, put up a proper lodge, and replace the deathly slow lift.

I'm actually surprised they haven't done all of this already. Spruce is a nightmare when it's busy.

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[Scruffy]

I don't think price is the only driving factor of where and when people ski at any particular area. I wouldn't worry about Stowe being overrun by a lower season pass. It was not that long ago Stowe was not the lux price it is now, it was more competitive with the rest of the big NE ski areas, and I don't remember there being so many people skiing there that they didn't have a place to park. I was there 2 weeks ago on a $49 deal day and it was empty, granted it was mid-week.

I kinda wish Aspen would buy Stowe over Vail. Aspen is just a better operation.

 

[deadheadskier]

That would be great. I vastly prefer the Aspen area to Vails front range resorts.

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[BenedictGomez]

It was not that long ago Stowe was not the lux price it is now, it was more competitive with the rest of the big NE ski areas,

When, the cretaceous period? Stowe has been the most expensive in the east for many years now.

 

[Scruffy]

When, the cretaceous period? Stowe has been the most expensive in the east for many years now.

10-15 years ago it was only a couple bucks more than bush/Kton, not enough to scare anyone away, not even worth a mention. The spread has widened within the past few years, esp after the price point broke $100. You wouldn't know, you haven't skied there in years yourself, by your own principles.

 

[deadheadskier]

10-15 years ago it was only a couple bucks more than bush/Kton, not enough to scare anyone away, not even worth a mention. The spread has widened within the past few years, esp after the price point broke $100. You wouldn't know, you haven't skied there in years yourself, by your own principles.

to be fair, BG lived in VT and worked at Stowe 10-15 years ago and has skied there since

I do agree with your pricing analysis though. Late 90s through early 2000's Stowe was no more expensive than Killington, Okemo, Stratton etc.

 

[Scruffy]

to be fair, BG lived in VT and worked at Stowe 10-15 years ago and has skied there since

I do agree with your pricing analysis though. Late 90s through early 2000's Stowe was no more expensive than Killington, Okemo, Stratton etc.

Yeah, I know, I'm just razzing him a little; he likes to say he won't ski there any more, on price principle alone.

 

[RISkier]

I disagree. I am a season pass holder at SB. I would never leave SB but its intriguing to me because you could have a home mountain in New England and then plan a family trip out west and it would be covered under your season pass. There are probably many new englanders that Plan a couple of trips up north and do a trip out west. In terms of market share this would entice the consumer to gravitate towards the Vail product.
But the crowds you would have a Stowe, OMG

A few years ago we swapped a time share for a place in Vail. Then started looking at prices and decided we'd buy an Epic Pass and plan a 2nd trip to Summit County. At that time I think we paid a little over $500 and skied about 13 days. For a variety of reasons we tend to prefer UT. We usually ski Stowe enough to justify an Epic Pass, but we live in Southern NE and the current pass prices make no sense for us. An Epic pass that included Stowe would make the Vail owned Western resorts very attractive to us. I do fear what might happen to crowds at Stowe. We pretty much avoid skiing Stowe on any Saturday. We were up over MLK and walked our dogs through the notch that Saturday and had trouble finding parking. An Eastern Epic Pass would also likely force other Eastern areas to evaluate their pricing structure.

 

[VTKilarney]

I dont know that I've seen those posts, but it makes no sense. Assuming the numbers work, adding an eastern resort to the Vail portfolio decreases financial risk through geographical diversification. Frankly, I'm surprised Vail hasn't bought an eastern resort long ago.

Here's just one recent example from Trailboss:
"I just don't see Vail interested in an eastern resort. It doesn't fit their model."
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...00-Epic-Passes?p=963780&viewfull=1#post963780

There are other examples.

 

[RISkier]

Right across the street from the Toll House area is already a small lot. They'd need to expand that, figure out how to get people across the road, put up a proper lodge, and replace the deathly slow lift.

I'm actually surprised they haven't done all of this already. Spruce is a nightmare when it's busy.

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I've heard Stowe locals say that the Toll House area would be developed at some point in the future. Basically to do another area with high end condos like Spruce. I believe the Inn is closed and used for employee housing. I also (and I'm just speculating here) believe many of the extant condos in the Toll House area are privately owned, and we've recently seen some listed for sale. I certainly don't know the legal details but I'd think that until whoever owns the resort owns all of the condos, they'd be pretty limited in what they can do over there. That's such an underused area. Beautiful beginner terrain and almost nobody skies over there. Fresh powder will literally hang around for days. If it's not too cold and we feel like taking it easy for a while, we'll sometimes do a run or two over there. Really lovely and peaceful. But the lift is a huge PIA and I'm sure a big part of the reason no one even takes a quick run or two. I just won't ride it on a cold day.

 

[machski]

Not to mention if you do anything at Toll House, you need to add snowmaking down there. I'm sure Vail knows all of that though if they are jumping in.

 

[rtjcbrown]

I've heard Stowe locals say that the Toll House area would be developed at some point in the future. Basically to do another area with high end condos like Spruce. I believe the Inn is closed and used for employee housing. I also (and I'm just speculating here) believe many of the extant condos in the Toll House area are privately owned, and we've recently seen some listed for sale. I certainly don't know the legal details but I'd think that until whoever owns the resort owns all of the condos, they'd be pretty limited in what they can do over there. That's such an underused area. Beautiful beginner terrain and almost nobody skies over there. Fresh powder will literally hang around for days. If it's not too cold and we feel like taking it easy for a while, we'll sometimes do a run or two over there. Really lovely and peaceful. But the lift is a huge PIA and I'm sure a big part of the reason no one even takes a quick run or two. I just won't ride it on a cold day.

I would think a two stage gondola/bubble chair would fit nicely there. Have it follow the line of the current double, but extend it a little bit to the intersection at the top of Gulch/Tyro/T-line, and have an unload station there. Then have the lift do a right turn and go down to the base/main lodge following the route of North Slope. This would allow people parking at Toll House a direct ride to the main lodge. You could also use the lower section of the new lift to replace the slow Toll House lift. You could also allow two-way traffic on the lift so people could use it to access (from Mansfield base) the trails currently served by the Mountain Triple. Both the Toll House and Mountain Triple are 30+ years old and will need replacement soon, so this one lift will take the place of both. You put in a free/discount parking at the base of Toll House to alleviate the crowding at Mansfield/Spruce.

 

[farlep99]

I don't think price is the only driving factor of where and when people ski at any particular area. I wouldn't worry about Stowe being overrun by a lower season pass. It was not that long ago Stowe was not the lux price it is now, it was more competitive with the rest of the big NE ski areas, and I don't remember there being so many people skiing there that they didn't have a place to park. I was there 2 weeks ago on a $49 deal day and it was empty, granted it was mid-week.

I kinda wish Aspen would buy Stowe over Vail. Aspen is just a better operation.

Weekend parking at Stowe nowadays is a complete clusterf*ck. They used to have lots over on the Spruce side as well. Those are now gone and any parking over there is private. Unless you get to the hill early (730-830) you're going to be hunting for a spot & probably will have to do a few laps. it's really frustrating

 

[Jcb890]

To the people worried about Vail upping the price on normal day lift tickets - you guys do realize Stowe is charging $129 (w/out RFID) for a weekend/holiday pass, right? Colorado resorts aren't really that much more.

The season passes to Stowe are honestly unreasonable. We went once last year on the VT Ski 3 Card, but Stowe's passes and window rates are just too much for us. There are better deals which are as close or closer, in my opinion. Stowe is super nice, but the price is prohibitive. If they were added to the EPIC Pass @ $609, anyone who is planning to go West to any of their destinations and ride Stowe more than 1-2 days, it makes too much sense not to go that route.

What would be really awesome is if Vail bought both Stowe and Jay peak and put them both on the EPIC Pass @ $609. I think Jay would get a lot more traffic being run by a reputable company like Vail and hopefully we'd see an end to a lot of the possible shenanigans going on with lifts, wind holds, trail openings, etc. I know, wishful thinking...

 

[dlague]

That would be great. I vastly prefer the Aspen area to Vails front range resorts.

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I would not call Breck, Vail or Keystone front range. Front range is pretty flat. Front range starts past Golden. This places are more than double the elevation of the front range and that difference surpasses the height of Mount Washington.

Now I do get the preference for Aspen however we have not skied there yet and possibly will not this season.

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[deadheadskier]

I would not call Breck, Vail or Keystone front range. Front range is pretty flat. Front range starts past Golden. This places are more than double the elevation of the front range and that difference surpasses the height of Mount Washington.

Now I do get the preference for Aspen however we have not skied there yet and possibly will not this season.

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While technically not the Front range, that's what summit county resorts and to a lesser extent Vail have been called for years.

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[SkiFanE]

I haven't read back through every post - but didn't see mention of the quaint town of Stowe being a draw for Vail. It's the quintessential picture perfect NE town that people from afar kind of expect. Do people from afar fly to NE to ski? Not as much as the west I bet. But if you skip the east because of the snow/conditions, maybe you'd be more enticed by a NE resort town. I'm not sure what transportation is like - but do they shuttle from town to the Mountain? Can they do more to the resort vibe if you include the town?

Personally, Stowe was my favorite Mt in New England - before we had kids and committed to SR. Haven't been skiing there in 20 years - but it was always our first choice (and my brother settled there so I've visited Stowe more recently without skiing). I loved the terrain - we'd pop in woods all over the place. It'd bust our budget now tho.

 

[Scruffy]

Weekend parking at Stowe nowadays is a complete clusterf*ck. They used to have lots over on the Spruce side as well. Those are now gone and any parking over there is private. Unless you get to the hill early (730-830) you're going to be hunting for a spot & probably will have to do a few laps. it's really frustrating

hmm.. guess I've gotten there early enough or have just been lucky. I'm there several times a year, weekends included, every year. I'm always parking up near Mansfield lodge? I avoid known crazy weekends like, MLK, Pres. WK, but honestly, I've not seen it as clusterF, but I believe you. I'll keep it in mind and make sure I'm there early every time, thanks for the heads up. I'm surprised they don't have public parking up by Spruce. They want people to shop there, taking the over easy just to shop is weird.

On another note, the Spruce Base Camp lodge is the best place for lunch on the mountain, I mean fro a ski lodge cafeteria style place that is.

 

[jimmywilson69]

They could easily add a second level to the Mansfield parking lot. The entire thing is paved already, so no real stormwater runoff impact. They could even do it in phases if they didn't want to make the entire thing 2 levels at once. Start at the end of the lot closest to the Gondola and work towards town.

 

[thetrailboss]

So.....12 pages later....any more evidence that suggests that Vail is going to buy the place?