Vail to buy Stowe?

[BenedictGomez]

I can tell you as of now I won't be going to a Sugarbush or Smugglers because they are not part of a package. No doubt they are great areas, but a bundled product is so much more attractive then a solo one. I wonder how many people feel the same way I do?

Put me down for feeling precisely the opposite. Granted, if the mountain's good the moutain's good, but in general in terms of the "other stuff", I'm not a fan of McSkiing, and prefer small independent ski areas which each put their own spin on things and have their own character, and worry that with big conglomerates you may start to notice similarities which exist due to cost savings via scale. I much prefer a Smuggler's Notch or a Plattekill to the giants. That said, I'm not an "amenity seeker" to begin with, 90% of my focus is on terrain/weather, so those who enjoy lavish lodging and 4-star restaurants will not doubt feel otherwise. My 2¢.

 

[dlague]

Cool - so instead of $400/night rooms @ the Lodge & $100 lift tix - $600/night rooms & $150 lift tix.

Original prices were marginally prohibitive for me, but I've always wanted to ski Stowe. Guess not now. My fear is that Vail's pricing practices will cause increases elsewhere in the northeast, which are pretty high as they are. I fear for the long-term viability of skiing in the northeast given the decreasing snow due to warming & increased costs.

The point is not to buy daily lift tickets but buy the pass.

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[dlague]

Certainly not common, but we weren't necessarily talking about common weekends at Stowe either. We were talking about holiday crowds.

That is exactly my point though, Vail can spread people out, Stowe can't. At least not in the same way as some western resorts.

Well we skied Vail on new years day and trails were vacant. Christmas was the same.



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[dlague]

Put me down for feeling precisely the opposite. Granted, if the mountain's good the moutain's good, but in general in terms of the "other stuff", I'm not a fan of McSkiing, and prefer small independent ski areas which each put their own spin on things and have their own character, and worry that with big conglomerates you may start to notice similarities which exist due to cost savings via scale. I much prefer a Smuggler's Notch or a Plattekill to the giants. That said, I'm not an "amenity seeker" to begin with, 90% of my focus is on terrain/weather, so those who enjoy lavish lodging and 4-star restaurants will not doubt feel otherwise. My 2¢.

Well I like having diversity as well so the Epic Local Pass still gives us that. We have been to 6 ski areas that have a combined 15,000 acres and we will hit a few more. Terrain variety has not been a problem. We are not the overnight skin in ski out lodging type and limit our time in the restaurants and bars. So it works for us.

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[NYDB]

The point is not to buy daily lift tickets but buy the pass.

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Thats great for us enthusiasts but what I find with this model is, as a pass holder it's tough to introduce new people, and other families to the sport.

 

[cdskier]

Thats great for us enthusiasts but what I find with this model is, as a pass holder it's tough to introduce new people, and other families to the sport.

I agree. Even though I'm a passholder and get terrific value out of it, I still worry about the daily ticket rates resulting in problems down the line with getting more people into the sport. For people that ski a lot, passes are fantastic. For people interested in trying the sport or casual skiers/riders, day tickets scare them away.

 

[SnowRock]

Question as I contemplate a MTN owned Stowe... is the thought that MTN would make their EPIC pass money based on volume considering current cost of that product versus a Stowe season pass?

 

[Jully]

Question as I contemplate a MTN owned Stowe... is the thought that MTN would make their EPIC pass money based on volume considering current cost of that product versus a Stowe season pass?

I believe so, but remember only half of MTN's profits come from ticket sales. But with regards to pass holders its also about attracting new customers in the east and getting former Stowe passholders to go out west and spending money out there!

 

[Jully]

I agree. Even though I'm a passholder and get terrific value out of it, I still worry about the daily ticket rates resulting in problems down the line with getting more people into the sport. For people that ski a lot, passes are fantastic. For people interested in trying the sport or casual skiers/riders, day tickets scare them away.

I agree with you, but you already see other mountains trying to fill this void. Ragged has a free to ski and ride program where you get 3 free lessons with everything included. You then can buy your own gear at a reasonable discount and get a wicked cheap season pass for the rest of that year and the next year.

The program seems pretty popular too. The busiest lift most days I'm there is their beginner lift!

If more programs like these pop up, I'll feel even better about the future of the sport. Different mountains are just targeting different demographics!

 

[VTKilarney]

If Vail is still in the buying mood, which I doubt they will be right away if they buy Stowe, I think these would be prime options:
- Bromont: Closest sizeable ski area to Montreal and can drive traffic to Whistler.
- Whitetail: There is a lot of money in the D.C. area and since the skiing isn't so great pass holders would be very tempted to ski out west.

 

[Keelhauled]

If Vail is still in the buying mood, which I doubt they will be right away if they buy Stowe, I think these would be prime options:
- Bromont: Closest sizeable ski area to Montreal and can drive traffic to Whistler.
- Whitetail: There is a lot of money in the D.C. area and since the skiing isn't so great pass holders would be very tempted to ski out west.

Well I thought they weren't going to be in the buying mood after Park City, but then they went and bought Whistler, so what do I know. At this point there are very few things they can do that would surprise me.

 

[cdskier]

I agree with you, but you already see other mountains trying to fill this void. Ragged has a free to ski and ride program where you get 3 free lessons with everything included. You then can buy your own gear at a reasonable discount and get a wicked cheap season pass for the rest of that year and the next year.

The program seems pretty popular too. The busiest lift most days I'm there is their beginner lift!

If more programs like these pop up, I'll feel even better about the future of the sport. Different mountains are just targeting different demographics!

Sugarbush does have something similar for true first-timers over the age of 13 (http://www.sugarbush.com/ski-ride-school/first-timer-lesson-program-for-skiers-and-snowboarders/). For $280 you get rentals, 3 lessons, and lift tickets for those 3 days. After you successfully complete the program you get a full season pass for the remainder of the year. That's a hell of a deal.

That still leaves a giant gap for people that have maybe tried it a couple times and want to go again or just for the casual skier that only goes a handful of times a year.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Doubtful whitetail is for sale. Its is privately owned along with 2 other mountains in central PA. Its is by far the best skiing, and most crowded. Like 9 runs in 4 hours crowded on a Sunday. It is also the cash cow for the "corporation".

As always, money talks but I highly doubt that it would be let go with out all 3 mountains in the mix.

It'd be great for me since I am a pass holder at Roundtop (pass is good at Liberty and Whitetail) and I'd be buying an epic pass for not much more money than I spent for my 3-mountain local pass.

Lots of chatter about an announcement tomorrow. Definitely have concerns about if this goes through...

 

[4aprice]

Put me down for feeling precisely the opposite. Granted, if the mountain's good the moutain's good, but in general in terms of the "other stuff", I'm not a fan of McSkiing, and prefer small independent ski areas which each put their own spin on things and have their own character, and worry that with big conglomerates you may start to notice similarities which exist due to cost savings via scale. I much prefer a Smuggler's Notch or a Plattekill to the giants. That said, I'm not an "amenity seeker" to begin with, 90% of my focus is on terrain/weather, so those who enjoy lavish lodging and 4-star restaurants will not doubt feel otherwise. My 2¢.

Just to add to that, the bundle would have to include western areas. Would not be interested in east only.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[benski]

Vail should by Tuxedo ridge. Defiantly for sale. Enough developable land for a Casino. Close enough to NYC to sell condos to commuters.

 

[SnowRock]

I believe so, but remember only half of MTN's profits come from ticket sales. But with regards to pass holders its also about attracting new customers in the east and getting former Stowe passholders to go out west and spending money out there!

Yup good point.. and I guess considering their assumptions of the composition of Stowe pass-holders, plus the new folks they would attract to buy an Epic Pass with an East Coast mountain, they may assume a high % would take trips and spend $$ on mountain/at MTN owned lodging. That said cost differential is pretty large.

Selfishly I much prefer Stowe as part of the Mountain Collective.

 

[skiur]

Well we skied Vail on new years day and trails were vacant. Christmas was the same.



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How is that different than any other mountain? Everywhere is empty on Christmas day and new years day.

 

[cdskier]

How is that different than any other mountain? Everywhere is empty on Christmas day and new years day.

Right...the busy times for ski areas on those 2 holidays are usually not the holidays themselves, but sometime between them depending on how the weekends and holidays fall.

 

[dlague]

If Vail is still in the buying mood, which I doubt they will be right away if they buy Stowe, I think these would be prime options:
- Bromont: Closest sizeable ski area to Montreal and can drive traffic to Whistler.
- Whitetail: There is a lot of money in the D.C. area and since the skiing isn't so great pass holders would be very tempted to ski out west.

If this rumor is true - who thought they would be in a buying mood after Whistler?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i thought it would be jay/burke. very interesting. if this results in a ~$700 stowe/summit+eagle county pass, then i am possibly leaving max. a little worry that stowe would have insanely increased skier visit #s and crowding? maybe they get jay/burke too to spread the passholders?