Vermont Yankee Nuke Plant to Close by End of 2014

[bigbog]

Just my $.01...but it often seems to come down to costs(design & maintenance) VS huge salaries for management.....guess what takes precedence.

 

[thetrailboss]

If it had been named Vermont Red Sox Nuclear Plant, instead of Yankee, perhaps it would have gotten a better rap.


:beer:

 

[thetrailboss]

Good in depth story from WCAX. http://www.wcax.com/story/23264274/...art=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9244328 At the 2:26 mark in the video they interview one of the opponents of the plant; "Leo Shiff" of the "Safe and Green Campaign". I can only shake my head at the guy. He says he is happy that the plant is closing "but the 14-16 months isn't soon enough". Does he have any idea that you can't just unplug a Nuclear Reactor?

Just watched it and had to sit through the obligatory RRMC ad.

I heard him on VPR say the same thing. No, he doesn't know what he is talking about. I'm sure he is protesting the wind turbines now too....

 

[tree_skier]

Firstly let me put my name in for one of the many highly paying jobs that King Shumlin has said would the closing of VY would create. Oh wait a minute that was just in his fantasy world. Those few jobs will be at the Gaz-Metro natural gas plant he wants to put in up north to line his pocket.

Not only is this an economic disaster for Windham County but it is also a disaster for the environment as the only replacement for the base load electricity is more carbon emitting fossil fuel production.

 

[Geoff]

Somehow, I kind of doubt that the management on-site at a nuke plant makes particularly high salaries. It's not that kind of business.

Edited:

A quick Google search turned up something that looks like a salary range of $100K to $150K centering on $130K. For that kind of head count and responsibility, that doesn't strike me as huge dollars. Every dentist in town makes more.

http://www1.salary.com/Power-Plant-Operations-Manager-Salary.html

 

[thetrailboss]

Firstly let me put my name in for one of the many highly paying jobs that King Shumlin has said would the closing of VY would create. Oh wait a minute that was just in his fantasy world. Those few jobs will be at the Gaz-Metro natural gas plant he wants to put in up north to line his pocket.

Not only is this an economic disaster for Windham County but it is also a disaster for the environment as the only replacement for the base load electricity is more carbon emitting fossil fuel production.

Isn't it interesting that nobody in VT even gets that he is completely owned by GMP and Gaz Metro? I find it completely interesting that everyone yells and screams about VY and "industrial" wind, but they don't give a damn that now one company pretty much is the electric utility for the entire state and that they looked the other way and let CVPS "keep" the money that they said they were going to return to their ratepayers who bailed them out when times were tough.

I'm sad, but glad that I left VT because it just seems to be getting even more crazy up there. Shumlin has been bad for Vermont and yet nobody gets it. Since his second term began all the news has been about job losses....very good paying job losses...now by my count almost 2,000 of them gone.

 

[thetrailboss]

Boy, they just can't help themselves, can they?

http://www.wcax.com/story/23325764/anti-nuclear-activists-demonstrate-about-vt-yankee

 

[Geoff]

I'm sad, but glad that I left VT because it just seems to be getting even more crazy up there. Shumlin has been bad for Vermont and yet nobody gets it. Since his second term began all the news has been about job losses....very good paying job losses...now by my count almost 2,000 of them gone.

Wait until the IBM plant closes. That's the economic driver for Chittenden County. You can't make it with nothing but colleges and hospitals. You need people with high wages to pay for college tuition and gold-plated health insurance to fund the hospitals. The plant employed 8500 in 2001. It might barely employ 4000 now. Once the semiconductor FAB lines become obsolete, it's unlikely that IBM will spend the money to upgrade them. It's pretty well known within high tech that IBM has been trying to sell the plant for many years. I did a product that used their Rainier network processor 10 years ago. They sold that business off to Hifn and the FAB moved from Burlington to Asia. It shouldn't be long now before the doors close completely.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wait until the IBM plant closes. That's the economic driver for Chittenden County. You can't make it with nothing but colleges and hospitals. You need people with high wages to pay for college tuition and gold-plated health insurance to fund the hospitals. The plant employed 8500 in 2001. It might barely employ 4000 now. Once the semiconductor FAB lines become obsolete, it's unlikely that IBM will spend the money to upgrade them. It's pretty well known within high tech that IBM has been trying to sell the plant for many years. I did a product that used their Rainier network processor 10 years ago. They sold that business off to Hifn and the FAB moved from Burlington to Asia. It shouldn't be long now before the doors close completely.

Spot on. Vermont has done a good job harassing them as well.

IBM was a very good employer for a long time. Essex really benefited from them. But too many take them for granted.

 

[Glenn]

630 jobs is a lot of jobs for that area...or any area in Vermont. Not only do you have those jobs going away, you have 630 less people going out to buy lunch, gassing up their cars, getting groceries after work, doing business in the community. People tend to focus on just the jobs; which in this case, is already significant enough. You throw in the other economic factors and you've got some really big issues.

I'm speaking from SoVT perspective... There aren't a helluva a lot of jobs around there. Most appear to be hourly type positions. This summer alone, I've seen a few workers from Mt. Snow doing hourly work at other businesses during the off season. Where are these 630 people going to go? Vermont already has a serious issue with "brain drain" (kids growing up in VT, going to school and not returing), now you have more people potentially packing up an leaving the area.

I've heard a few of the elected officials saying: "Well now we can focus on solar and wind!" That's fine and dandy. But how may acres are you going to have clear to lay out that many solar pannels to generate the same power VY did? Oh, and what happens when the sun sets? Or on cloudy days? Same with wind...you need land for that. And the same people who protested VY will probably protest the windmills as "bird killers".

The other bit of sad irony: Vermont is a big 'BUY LOCAL' state. You had local power and now you're importing it from a different country.

And already in progress (man bites dog files)----The people who advocating for closing...are now saying it's all because of 'corporate greed'.

 

[tree_skier]

IBM has said that if VY closes it will relocate as the electric market would become to volatile. With energizers just closing, IBM potentialy pulling out up north and now 5-10 percent of windham county's economy leaving in a year on top of C&S moving corporate to Keene and united natural moving to chesterfield. We see just how "business friendly" as the royalty up in montpelier likes to claim Vermont is.

On a different not it has always amazed me the number of people, some of them highly educated that are screaming about climate change but the first thing they want to do is to close all of the nuclear plants. So lets help slow down climate change by taking carbon free baseload power off line and replacing it with fossil fuel plants, because that is the other baseload electricity options and in most of the country that means coal fired plants.

 

[Geoff]

Vermont is incredibly unfriendly to businesses.

Act 68 has a 2-tiered state school tax that taxes commercial property at a far higher rate than residential property.

Vermont has a stiff 8.5% state corporate income tax

Act 250 environmental regulations make it very expensive to build large commercial property. It enables anybody the right to sue at any time to bog down the process.

The stiff personal state income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, etc add to the cost of doing business and discourage high-paid people from living/working in the state

Energy costs are really high. I compare my Green Mountain Power electric bill to my Massholia bill and everything is doubled.... both the base fees and the per-kilowatt fees. I have the circuit breakers flipped off in my Vermont place for the summer and still see a $16.00 electric bill. Other than the short gas pipeline down from Quebec to Burlington, there is no natural gas infrastructure. The rest of the country has converted over. Heating with oil or propane is outrageously expensive. Anybody who needs to burn oil for industrial use is at a huge cost disadvantage with any other part of the country.

Consider retail. Anywhere within 40 miles of the Connecticut River, Vermont basically has no retail. Everybody shops over the river in tax-free New Hampshire.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vermont is incredibly unfriendly to businesses.

Act 68 has a 2-tiered state school tax that taxes commercial property at a far higher rate than residential property.

Vermont has a stiff 8.5% state corporate income tax

This drives up the cost of living for sure and drives a lot of folks out and prevents a lot of business from coming in.

Act 250 environmental regulations make it very expensive to build large commercial property. It enables anybody the right to sue at any time to bog down the process.

As someone that did environmental reg/litigation, VERY TRUE. The system is really being abused by folks who are using it for NIMBY. The biggest mistake when they enacted Act 250 was that it was supposed to have a state land use plan enacted with it so that it was clear(er) that development was allowed and what folks wanted. That's never been done, so instead we have the complex regulatory system and no clear map as to what folks want. I wish that they would clarify who has standing to intervene in Act 250 because right now it is way out of whack.

The stiff personal state income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, etc add to the cost of doing business and discourage high-paid people from living/working in the state

Add us to that list. Both young professionals. What Vermont needs. And we're no longer there. In my wife's last year of med school at UVM, many of the grads were considering where to go and with Shumlin's new health plan everyone was worried that there would be no potential to make enough to pay back the student loans. So where did most folks go for residency? Not Vermont. Kind of runs against what having a state med school should be about.

And lots of doctors leaving the state or not moving in. Look at Rutland...they can't get any docs and they are right at Killington.

Energy costs are really high. I compare my Green Mountain Power electric bill to my Massholia bill and everything is doubled.... both the base fees and the per-kilowatt fees. I have the circuit breakers flipped off in my Vermont place for the summer and still see a $16.00 electric bill. Other than the short gas pipeline down from Quebec to Burlington, there is no natural gas infrastructure. The rest of the country has converted over. Heating with oil or propane is outrageously expensive. Anybody who needs to burn oil for industrial use is at a huge cost disadvantage with any other part of the country.

The oxymoronic thing with all the regulation, NIMBY, etc. is that the only things left in Vermont are monopolies. Who is your utility? GMP now. They have free run over most of the state. Need groceries? Well, it's basically Hannaford, Price Chopper, or maybe Shaw's. All regional/national "big box" chains. Need basic things cheap? Drive to Wal Mart a *gasp* big box because there is nothing else. They've made it so that there is no competition and no chance for others to start anything. The exact opposite of what folks say they want.

Consider retail. Anywhere within 40 miles of the Connecticut River, Vermont basically has no retail. Everybody shops over the river in tax-free New Hampshire.

And it's only gotten worse. I heard on NHPR the other day that 40% of NH's food market/supermarket business is from out of state. That's huge.

 

[Geoff]

And it's only gotten worse. I heard on NHPR the other day that 40% of NH's food market/supermarket business is from out of state. That's huge.

I'm part of the problem. When I winter at Killington at the height of the ski season, I do all my major grocery shopping at the Market Basket chain in Warner (mile marker 20 on I-89) or at the new bigger one on the Manchester/Hooksett line off I-93. I only do emergency shopping in Rutland. The local options.... Price Chopper, Hanniford's, and the only Grand Union left standing are really expensive and have lousy produce & meats. All my alcohol and wine comes from the NHSLS. Beer & mixers come from Market Basket.

Chittenden County is the only place in Vermont with big box stores and any semblance of specialty retail. With Lake Champlain in the way to the west and New Hampshire 90 miles down I-89, they have nowhere else to go. At Killington, my only option is the RutVegas Walmart. I'm kind of amazed the Home Depot there has survived.

 

[deadheadskier]

My folks summer in Ludlow. They travel to Claremont, NH to shop at Market Basket / Walmart etc. They only hit up Shaws in town for last minute or forgotten items as it's so outrageously over priced. Granted, all Shaws are overpriced, but it was the same scenario when the store was a Grand Union years ago.

 

[drjeff]

Most of the groceries I consume in VT are bought at the Big Y in Greenfield, MA on my way to VT - There are a couple of local, non chain markets I use for some items weekly on rte 100 between Wilmington and Mount Snow - prices actually don't seem too bad, then again I'm accustomed to CT prices

I figure/hope sometime in the next few years that this trend over the last decade plus of shifting from a less regulated society to and overly regulated society will start to swing back somewhat towards where it was when enough people get sick and tired and finally realize that the regulatory smothering we're under, especially in New England is about 180* from what a healthy, growing, vibrant economy needs!

I also find it very weird that the baby boomers, many of whom were so "anti government for anything" back in the 60's through 80's are now often "let the government do everything for me" today....

Myself, as much as I have thought in the past about practicing in VT, there's no way I'd consider it now. The healthcare program that they've already implemented is essentially doomed for failure as it will literally drive a great percentage of healthcare providers out of business and out of VT based on what it says it will do for how much $$ it will take in and pay out.

VT, as much as I love it to death is pretty much guaranteed to be a case study in the future in the Harvard Business Review about how not to create and retain a healthy business environment

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[steamboat1]

Grand Union is no longer in Rutland. Forget what it's called now.

All I know is beer is less expensive in NY.

 

[marcski]

Chittenden County is the only place in Vermont with big box stores and any semblance of specialty retail. With Lake Champlain in the way to the west and New Hampshire 90 miles down I-89, they have nowhere else to go. At Killington, my only option is the RutVegas Walmart. I'm kind of amazed the Home Depot there has survived.

And up there...they actually head across the border to our northern friends in Canada for access to some large retail stores that rhey don't have locally.

 

[Geoff]

Grand Union is no longer in Rutland. Forget what it's called now.

All I know is beer is less expensive in NY.

Tops Friendly Markets. According to the Google search I just did, the Grand Union Wiki says they re-branded the Rutland store on May 28th. I haven't been in Rutland since the 1st week of May.

On July 19, 2012, Tops Markets announced that it will acquire the 21 remaining Grand Union stores in the Adirondack Region and parts of Vermont. The terms of the deal were not disclosed. On May 28th, 2013 grand reopening ceremonies were held for 9 stores which had been rebannered under the Tops Friendly Markets name. The remaining 12 stores held grand reopening ceremonies on July 2, 2013 under the Tops Friendly Markets banner, effectively bringing and end to the Grand Union supermarket chain.

 

[Geoff]

I figure/hope sometime in the next few years that this trend over the last decade plus of shifting from a less regulated society to and overly regulated society will start to swing back somewhat towards where it was when enough people get sick and tired and finally realize that the regulatory smothering we're under, especially in New England is about 180* from what a healthy, growing, vibrant economy needs!

I also find it very weird that the baby boomers, many of whom were so "anti government for anything" back in the 60's through 80's are now often "let the government do everything for me" today....

I don't find it weird at all. At age 55, I'm one of the last of the boomers. The bottom half (economically) of the boomers have almost no retirement savings and no pension. They weren't fortunate to be a 6-figure-income dentist married to a 6-figure-income physician where they have an income level where they can create a multi-million dollar net worth to fund a comfortable retirement. The bottom half of the boomers lived their lives paycheck to paycheck. At best, they own a modest house outright and many have zero or negative net worth. Their children aren't usually in an economic circumstance where they can afford a home with an in-law apartment. They didn't pay enough into Social Security to see a particularly large check. The median Social Security check is $1229/month so half of retirees get less than that and are at or below the poverty level. The bottom half of the aging boomers are reconciled to having to work until the day they die. Little surprise that they figured out that a safety net of social services for the elderly is a good thing.

Boomers were anti-government in the 1970's because they didn't want to get drafted and shipped off to Vietnam to die. I managed to luck out. That war and the draft ended 4 years before I hit age 18. ...but I'm the youngest of the boomers. I knew lots of families who had older sons come home in body bags. It wasn't the affluent families because they could ship Junior off to college and get the draft deferment. It was the working class families who had kids who weren't born bright enough to get into college.

There's something to be said for government regulation. I kind-a like the Clean Air Act. Otherwise, I'd be breathing smog every day. I kind-a like that I can go swimming in salt water because nobody is allowed to dump raw sewage or industrial waste into the ocean. I'd have no problem at all with a recrafted Vermont Act 250. I think it's very important to take a hard look at the environmental and community impacts of developing land before breaking ground... particularly above 2500 feet.

With respect to Vermont, Vermont Yankee, and nuclear power, I have the same opinion I've always had. That plant is obsolete and the plant operations/management has been a huge risk to public health and safety. The plant should be closed and that operator never allowed back into the business. I think it's possible to engineer a standardized nuclear power plant, site it in a low risk area (for flood, earthquake...), and operate it safely. To do that requires strict government regulations and it requires changing law so the anti-nuclear people and their junk science can't make it prohibitively expensive to build new plants.