Vote for Utah ski bus

[thetrailboss]

How dare they try and plow while powder hungry skiers are trying to use the roads!!!

Exactly! The plow driver should have pulled over to let that skier/rider pass.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sorry if this is behind a paywall. Snowbird’s latest excuse is “it’s UTA’s fault and not us having no parking reservations or limiting ticket sales”.

Alta has ‘tenuous’ relationship with Snowbird. Canyon traffic is to blame.

Alta Ski Area General Manager Mike Maughan told the Town of Alta town council his resort has a 'tenuous' relationship with neighbor Snowbird that stems from different approaches to parking.

www.sltrib.com

 

[thetrailboss]

Link to the Alta Town Meeting that discussed the Gondola and traffic issues. Alta Manager Mike Maughan spoke later in the meeting:

Some interesting takeaways from Mike's comments:

• He described the relationship with Snowbird to be "quite tenuous" but at several points said that the Town and other stakeholders need to keep Snowbird at the table because that will make things easier. It is clear that Snowbird is playing hardball;
• Snowbird is a separate governmental entity/district than Alta;
• The all-time record day for visitation was the last day of the 2023 season (April 2023). The number was 1,000 over the previous record. He would not elaborate as to what was that previous record number.
• In commenting about tolling the road, he observed that "60-70% of the clientele" are not price sensitive and are motivated by the experience of visiting LCC.
• With regards to capacity and skier traffic, he said that Brighton recorded more than 100,000 more skier days in 2022-2023 than Alta and has a higher density of users.
• In response to merely increasing busses, he noted that this is a safety concern in avalanche country because bussing will increase the number of visitors that are on the slopes than just allowing individual cars to continue to be the primary transportation option. He also mentioned that even in Zion, which has tight restrictions on access, more people use vans than the park bus system.
• He said that he had a call with UDOT discussing the idea of making the Cottonwood Canyons a separate transportation district so that they can set up their own bussing system, perhaps separate and apart from UTA.
• He is concerned about Snowbird's silence regarding eliminating roadside parking if they get a gondola. In fact, he said that Alta's own analysis shows no reduction in car traffic with the gondola.
• He is going to push UDOT to restrict or eliminate roadside parking for Snowbird due to traffic congestion, particularly at the end of the day.
• He has been asking the USFS to revisit its policy to not allow for more parking lots. He believes that having all of Snowbird's traffic in parking lots would help and adding more parking space would reduce traffic congestion as cars are not "doing illegal U-turns" on SR-210 and tying up traffic.
• When Hellgate is closed, or the "mainline" of SR-210 is not open, traffic congestion in Alta is particularly bad because all traffic is routed onto the Bypass Road and Alta cars are stopped to let Snowbird cars out.
• On that last note, he stated that Alta had an analysis done with regards to the congestion caused by Snowbird. When traffic from Snowbird only exits from the designated parking lots, there are nine cars from Snowbird in between 2 cars from Alta (so 1:9 ratio). When there is roadside parking at Snowbird, and Hellgate is closed, the numbers are "much higher", even as high as 500 Snowbird cars in between every 2 cars from Alta.

 

[jimk]

On a happier note, Another good dump is coming to UT tonight. Snowbird reports that if it pans out they are likely to break their all time snowfall record for the month of February.

 

[BenedictGomez]

On a happier note, Another good dump is coming to UT tonight. Snowbird reports that if it pans out they are likely to break their all time snowfall record for the month of February.

March will be off to a great start too, because the storm coming next week's even bigger.

 

[thetrailboss]

On a happier note, Another good dump is coming to UT tonight. Snowbird reports that if it pans out they are likely to break their all time snowfall record for the month of February.

I don't think that what Maughan said is bad news. It is matter of fact. Snowbird is taking a hard line in negotiations. That's just how they are.

 

[ss20]

Link to the Alta Town Meeting that discussed the Gondola and traffic issues. Alta Manager Mike Maughan spoke later in the meeting:

Some interesting takeaways from Mike's comments:

• He described the relationship with Snowbird to be "quite tenuous" but at several points said that the Town and other stakeholders need to keep Snowbird at the table because that will make things easier. It is clear that Snowbird is playing hardball;
• Snowbird is a separate governmental entity/district than Alta;
• The all-time record day for visitation was the last day of the 2023 season (April 2023). The number was 1,000 over the previous record. He would not elaborate as to what was that previous record number.
• In commenting about tolling the road, he observed that "60-70% of the clientele" are not price sensitive and are motivated by the experience of visiting LCC.
• With regards to capacity and skier traffic, he said that Brighton recorded more than 100,000 more skier days in 2022-2023 than Alta and has a higher density of users.
• In response to merely increasing busses, he noted that this is a safety concern in avalanche country because bussing will increase the number of visitors that are on the slopes than just allowing individual cars to continue to be the primary transportation option. He also mentioned that even in Zion, which has tight restrictions on access, more people use vans than the park bus system.
• He said that he had a call with UDOT discussing the idea of making the Cottonwood Canyons a separate transportation district so that they can set up their own bussing system, perhaps separate and apart from UTA.
• He is concerned about Snowbird's silence regarding eliminating roadside parking if they get a gondola. In fact, he said that Alta's own analysis shows no reduction in car traffic with the gondola.
• He is going to push UDOT to restrict or eliminate roadside parking for Snowbird due to traffic congestion, particularly at the end of the day.
• He has been asking the USFS to revisit its policy to not allow for more parking lots. He believes that having all of Snowbird's traffic in parking lots would help and adding more parking space would reduce traffic congestion as cars are not "doing illegal U-turns" on SR-210 and tying up traffic.
• When Hellgate is closed, or the "mainline" of SR-210 is not open, traffic congestion in Alta is particularly bad because all traffic is routed onto the Bypass Road and Alta cars are stopped to let Snowbird cars out.
• On that last note, he stated that Alta had an analysis done with regards to the congestion caused by Snowbird. When traffic from Snowbird only exits from the designated parking lots, there are nine cars from Snowbird in between 2 cars from Alta (so 1:9 ratio). When there is roadside parking at Snowbird, and Hellgate is closed, the numbers are "much higher", even as high as 500 Snowbird cars in between every 2 cars from Alta.

Closing day/Frank last season was over 7,000 skier visits.

The math is correct on cars leaving Alta. Assuming everyone zippers properly/takes turns. We did the math and it was a worse ration like 1:16 but that could've just been us at Albion lot.

This post highlights how Alta, Snowbird, UDOT, and the public all want very very different things. With Snowbird not budging on anything I doubt we see any kind of change in the canyon for years. And UDOT is just a complete mess.

If roadside parking was eliminated and meter lights installed existing all parking lots, you could eliminate weekend congestion under dry conditions.

Anyway, totally free-flowing today up/down, just as it is 80% of the time. I'm getting the worst end of the stick being at the Albion lot everyday and I still don't get all the fuss over the road.

 

[Smellytele]

Flying in on Friday night. Hope I can up into the canyons with the snow coming this weekend...

 

[thetrailboss]

Flying in on Friday night. Hope I can up into the canyons with the snow coming this weekend...

Are you skiing at one particular place or moving around? The skiing has been really good.

 

[thetrailboss]

One other thing that I forgot to mention that Maughan said was that business this season is on par with last season. That is crazy considering that last season had so much snow. He commented that their stats show that the balance this year is more destination skiers. He said that the feedback has been that folks go to Park City, get disappointed with the conditions, and then go to Alta.

 

[Smellytele]

Are you skiing at one particular place or moving around? The skiing has been really good.

Brighton Sunday, the bird Monday and powder Tuesday.

 

[thetrailboss]

Brighton Sunday, the bird Monday and powder Tuesday.

Just FYI on Brighton, they close at 4pm on Sunday. Solitude does as well. This results in a traffic jam between Solitude and Mill D Trailhead (about 2-3 miles). If you can, leave a bit earlier to avoid the snarl.

 

[jimk]

Brighton Sunday, the bird Monday and powder Tuesday.

We have a pretty strong storm going on right now, Feb 27. About one foot fell last night at Snowbird and another 4-8" expected today. It's relatively cold 15 degs daytime temp, and windy up in the mtns. I stayed home today because Wed-Fri look to be outstanding ski days and I'm saving myself

Forecast indicates heavy mountain snow for your visit, particularly Sat and Sun. If you have parking squared away for Brighton on Sunday you should be good, but expect big crowds. This assumes that the snowfall isn't so huge that they close BCC (rare, but happened several times last year). Monday at Snowbird should be far enough removed from the big part of the dump that crowds won't be too crazy, and it's a Monday. But be at mouth of LCC early, perhaps 730am. I can only guess that Powder Mtn will be quiet on Tuesday.

I'll add, that I've experienced some big crowd days at Snowbird, Brighton, and Solitude this year, but if you can manage traffic and parking, the actual lift lines on the hill aren't too bad, especially if you know to avoid certain popular lifts when they are most likely to have big lines. I leave on Sunday for a week of skiing in North Lake Tahoe. Major dump coming there this weekend as well.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Anyway, totally free-flowing today up/down, just as it is 80% of the time........ I still don't get all the fuss over the road.

Because it's a total s**t show the days you'd really, really, really want to ski there.

To be fair, I guess leaving at 1:45pm - 2pm solves most of the problem? But that kind of stinks.

 

[BenedictGomez]

business this season is on par with last season. That is crazy considering that last season had so much snow. He commented that their stats show that the balance this year is more destination skiers.

it hAz NoTHinG tO dO witH IKON and EPIC.

THe paZZes dOnt Make Duh CrowdenG aht all!

 

[BenedictGomez]

folks go to Park City, get disappointed with the conditions, and then go to Alta.

I call total BS on his claim. The skiing since late January has literally been the best sustained conditions I've ever experienced in my life, and I haven't left Park City to ski. Wouldn't bother. I believe it's snowed here 21 out of 27 days so far if my math is correct (woke up to another 10.5 inches on the mountain today in fact).

Is it better in Alta? Obviously. But no "destination skier" from the midwest, southeast, or northeast would in a million years be "disappointed" with skiing Park City right now.

 

[thetrailboss]

I call total BS on his claim. The skiing since late January has literally been the best sustained conditions I've ever experienced in my life, and I haven't left Park City to ski. Wouldn't bother. I believe it's snowed here 21 out of 27 days so far if my math is correct (woke up to another 10.5 inches on the mountain today in fact).

Is it better in Alta? Obviously. But no "destination skier" from the midwest, southeast, or northeast would in a million years be "disappointed" with skiing Park City right now.

Yeah I get what you’re saying. I think he was speaking to the pre-January period.

 

[thetrailboss]

Red Snake Letter

On April 11th, Alta Ski Area, the Town of Alta and Alta businesses sent a letter to UDOT highlighting recreation hotspots not addressed in UDOT’s Environmental Impact Statement regarding transportation improvements and presents potential red snake solutions for S.R. 210 in Little Cottonwood Canyon.

www.alta.com

 

[thetrailboss]

UTA ski bus to return next season — with help from third-party drivers

An internal memo sent to UTA employees stated that the agency plans to refocus its staff on providing baseline service to commuters across the valley.

www.sltrib.com

 

[jimk]

Thanks for sharing. I don't get to read the SLT. No mention of restoring 953, but let's hope so!