Vote for Utah ski bus

[thetrailboss]

Opinion: Why spend more than $500M when this option exists?

UDOT may soon recommend an expensive and environmentally harmful gondola system to relieve skier traffic up Little Cottonwood Canyon. A better, cheaper and more effective way exists, and it doesn’t involve doing nothing.

www.deseret.com

 

[IceEidolon]

I'm generally a proponent of electrified public transit, but I think that proposal shoots itself in the foot by proposing electric busses.

The trouble with busses apart from "it's steep as heck" is that each bus needs a trained driver. If you buy and staff the capacity for your worst days, you'll have a lot of equipment not being used on slower days - and there's already trouble hiring enough qualified bus drivers. The interem solution is going to need to boost bus capacity substantially.

The big benefit to a tram as I see it, once built, is it has very low staffing costs compared to a bus system where every vehicle has a driver.

 

[BenedictGomez]

My prediction:

1) The gondola eventually gets killed (perhaps after "winning" the choice & it being stated it will 100% go forth, but DOA at some point in the future, possibly during the interim bus plan, which will superficially appear successful).

2) They go forward with some completely inefficient bus system which is doomed from day one, but will initially seem like it is working (because it will initially due to its solving the current capacity problem as opposed to the terminal capacity problem).

3) The financial planners & demographers were mathematically correct all along (yes, I'm biased here) & hoards of people keep moving to both SLC & the Wasatch Back. The demographics of the area keep increasing, the roads become overwhelmed.

4) At some point it's (GASP) realized in (probably) 2033 that the "math dorks" were correct back in 2021, and this is getting really bad and it's totally unworkable and wow, what a cluster**** life is here now.

5) It's so bad it negatively impacts tourism in a meaningful way.

6) A gondola gets approved for construction in 2036.

 

[bigbob]

My prediction:

1) The gondola eventually gets killed (perhaps after "winning" the choice & it being stated it will 100% go forth, but DOA at some point in the future, possibly during the interim bus plan, which will superficially appear successful).

2) They go forward with some completely inefficient bus system which is doomed from day one, but will initially seem like it is working (because it will initially due to its solving the current capacity problem as opposed to the terminal capacity problem).

3) The financial planners & demographers were mathematically correct all along (yes, I'm biased here) & hoards of people keep moving to both SLC & the Wasatch Back. The demographics of the area keep increasing, the roads become overwhelmed.

4) At some point it's (GASP) realized in (probably) 2033 that the "math dorks" were correct back in 2021, and this is getting really bad and it's totally unworkable and wow, what a cluster**** life is here now.

5) It's so bad it negatively impacts tourism in a meaningful way.

6) A gondola gets approved for construction in 2036.

By 2036 we will be transporting our bodies like the Sci Fi movies in the 60's!

 

[machski]

Wow, hearing Brian Head will be opening for the season Friday.

 

[raisingarizona]

Wow, hearing Brian Head will be opening for the season Friday.

It's dumping there right now.

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't think any other communities in Utah are actually paying bus fares for homeless people to send them to SLC. That sounds like some ridiculous Fox News shit. I guess I could be wrong but I haven't seen or heard anything like that. I spend more time in Utah than I do here at my home in Arizona, or I have at least for over two years now.

Turns out my idea was not as crazy as it sounded. Except the community is outside the Wasatch Front:

Are homeless people being sent to Salt Lake City from Wyoming?

People experiencing homelessness in Wyoming are reportedly being sent to Salt Lake City as winter approaches, leaving the city responsible for taking care of another state's homeless problem.

www.fox13now.com

Jackson sends some homeless to Salt Lake City

CORRECTION: This version of the article corrects a significant error. Teton County Circuit Judge James Radda did not write into release orders that a man should take a bus to

www.jhnewsandguide.com

This is exactly my sentiment:

Carl Moore, co-founder of Salt Lake City organization OUR’s — Our Unsheltered Relatives — said if Jackson and other towns like Las Vegas are sending their homeless to Salt Lake City, those places should be contributing funds to Salt Lake City’s resource centers.

Did a Wyoming judge order homeless people in Jackson to get on bus to Salt Lake City?

A Teton County judge in Wyoming has reportedly ordered some chronically unhoused people in Jackson to get on a bus to Salt Lake City, which a Jackson police official said has “more resources,” according to a news article by the Jackson Hole News & Guide.

www.sltrib.com

 

[machski]

Sounds like Vancouver is pulling itself from the running for the 2030 games. SLC get ready, that makes them all but certainly yours.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sounds like Vancouver is pulling itself from the running for the 2030 games. SLC get ready, that makes them all but certainly yours.

Isn’t Japan still in the running?

 

[jimk]

With early snow, comes early fanatics, stole this info from a post on Ski Talk by GregK:

Have seen a few posts online today (11/11/22) of the traffic jams heading up to the hills this morning and a few videos of the Solitude, UT line ups. Picture is about 2/3 of the lift line.

 

[ss20]

The above is an extreme outlier. Neither Brighton or solitude required reservations, solitude isn't charging for parking, the ski bus isn't running, and soli/Brighton are the only games in town with 5 lifts total between them. S-H-I-T-S-H-O-W

I am going to try Sunday to one of them.

 

[thetrailboss]

With early snow, comes early fanatics, stole this info from a post on Ski Talk by GregK:

Have seen a few posts online today (11/11/22) of the traffic jams heading up to the hills this morning and a few videos of the Solitude, UT line ups. Picture is about 2/3 of the lift line.
View attachment 55015

As I have said before, IKON'T understand why.....

 

[thetrailboss]

'Perfect storm' causes long lines, traffic troubles leading to Utah ski resorts

Visitors heading to some of Utah's ski resorts on Friday experienced the flipside of the excitement over opening day.

www.fox13now.com

 

[thetrailboss]

And on topic.....

Public comments show majority of people against Gondola in Little Cottonwood Canyon

After a long study and public comment period, UDOT announced in August that they prefer a Gondola to alleviate traffic in Little Cottonwood Canyon.This has caus

kutv.com

 

[thetrailboss]

The above is an extreme outlier. Neither Brighton or solitude required reservations, solitude isn't charging for parking, the ski bus isn't running, and soli/Brighton are the only games in town with 5 lifts total between them. S-H-I-T-S-H-O-W

I am going to try Sunday to one of them.

My report from Brighton is very positive for today. As usual, undersell and overdeliver. They advertised two, maybe three lifts, but actually had FOUR lifts running (including Crest) and about 30 trails. Conditions were almost midwinter in places. Be careful because some of the main runs have snowmaking equipment and some whales that need to be groomed. Reports were that the glades were in play and good, but I did not want to destroy myself or my skis on the first lift-served day. Solitude had 3 lifts and about 11 trails from what I saw. Parking lot was jammed and cars were EVERYWHERE on 190. Lots of Brighton passholders commented about the shitshow crowds at Solitude and the cars being parked on the road slowing traffic. But very positive vibes at Brighton. Best opening weekend skiing I have seen.

I know that Amber was very excited to open Solitude early, but they were not at all prepared for the major crush of skiers and riders. I get that no bussing was SOMEWHAT a problem, but anyone who has driven up the canyons in the last two weeks would have seen LOTS of people earning turns and cars everywhere, plus I imagine that Alterra had PLENTY of data to suggest where their passholders are and that maybe something needed to be done to mitigate the crush (have a reservation system). I highly doubt that having Alta, Snowbird, and Snowbasin open next weekend are going to help Solitude because people will not want to use "their days" at these other places with limited terrain and will wait. Their usual preseason offering of Moonbeam, Apex, Link, and the triangle area in between them just cannot handle a midwinter demand of skiers and riders and IMHO is quite underwhelming and boring. Like Vail, they oversell what they have and have major issues when they cannot meet demand. In my mind, for these early season days, do a reservation system for four-hour slots in order to manage demand and set expectations accordingly so that the initial experience for folks is not terrible. All of the local news outlets covered the traffic and crowding problems. A few of my friends who have the four-letter pass went yesterday and posted on social media that while it was nice to get out Solitude was a complete mess. Tonight the traffic out was slow, largely due to Mill D folks crossing the road and trying to enter into the downhill traffic.

So as I see it the score is Boyne/Brighton: 1; Alterra/Solitude: 0, but I am biased

 

[thetrailboss]

Will you be stuck in long lift lines all season at Utah ski resorts? Or was opening weekend at Solitude, Brighton a perfect storm?

Lift lines for opening weekend at Solitude and Brighton ski areas blew up on social media, but relief is expected as more Utah resorts start their seasons.

www.sltrib.com

 

[thetrailboss]

Here’s what it might cost to ride the Little Cottonwood Canyon gondola

What would a ticket to ride the gondola cost? The answer has almost as many moving parts as a gondola itself.

www.fox13now.com

 

[jimk]

Is it naive of me to assume that season pass holders or people buying a day ticket at Alta or Snowbird would ride the proposed LCC gondola as part of their pass fee?

 

[thetrailboss]

Is it naive of me to assume that season pass holders or people buying a day ticket at Alta or Snowbird would ride the proposed LCC gondola as part of their pass fee?

That is not clear. I think the calculus that these folks are using is just the overall cost per projected ride that someone has to pay.

One comparison I see the pro-gondola folks making is this idea that Europe has gondolas for transportation, why not us? Honestly, that is a bit of a false comparison. In most of Europe, they have had multimodal transportation for decades. Busses, trains, aerial lifts, cars, etc. have been public transportation options. Second, and more importantly, a lot of the ski areas themselves are NOT wholly owned by private interests looking to make a profit. Most of the ones I know of are publicly owned or at least a public/private partnership. Here, both Alta and Snowbird are privately owned and are essentially asking Utah taxpayers for a $500 million handout. The jobs they create, particularly at Snowbird, are low-paying and not really too desirable. There are just a few truly career positions at both resorts. And, arguably, the most recent traffic and congestion is due to at least one of these resorts pursuing a low-cost, high volume business model. It is a legitimate public policy question as to if taxpayers should be funding this project when considering that there may be lower cost alternatives and the benefits may be really limited.

 

[raisingarizona]

That is not clear. I think the calculus that these folks are using is just the overall cost per projected ride that someone has to pay.

One comparison I see the pro-gondola folks making is this idea that Europe has gondolas for transportation, why not us? Honestly, that is a bit of a false comparison. In most of Europe, they have had multimodal transportation for decades. Busses, trains, aerial lifts, cars, etc. have been public transportation options. Second, and more importantly, a lot of the ski areas themselves are NOT wholly owned by private interests looking to make a profit. Most of the ones I know of are publicly owned or at least a public/private partnership. Here, both Alta and Snowbird are privately owned and are essentially asking Utah taxpayers for a $500 million handout. The jobs they create, particularly at Snowbird, are low-paying and not really too desirable. There are just a few truly career positions at both resorts. And, arguably, the most recent traffic and congestion is due to at least one of these resorts pursuing a low-cost, high volume business model. It is a legitimate public policy question as to if taxpayers should be funding this project when considering that there may be lower cost alternatives and the benefits may be really limited.

They also don't have the USA military and weapons industry economies to keep up and running. Being the worlds police force has an unfortunate price tag.

I can't say for sure but I bet thats' the big difference between us and them.