What Is The Vast Majority Looking For?

[highpeaksdrifter]

goes to show what the vast majority of skiers are looking for when Mt. Snow sees as many people on a busy Saturday as Magic does in an entire season.

DHS’s reply on another thread got me thinking. If the question what are you looking for in a ski area was posted on this or any ski forum (I already know it’s been done here numerous times) I’m sure the majority of responses would be snow and terrain.

So what do you think the vast majority that DHS refers to is looking for if not snow conditions and terrain?

 

[thetrailboss]

This is what the problem is with the industry. Some are marketing a product that is "an experience," which isn't really tangible at all. Others, including Les Otten back in the day, made their product "the snow conditions."

What we want is also not exactly what the average skier wants. We want variety of terrain, good customer service, and a good experience. What the average skier wants is a nice vacation, something to do besides skiing, and terrain that is fun and easy to ski (because the average skier skis maybe 5 days a season), and fast lifts.

What I want: variety of terrain, challenge, good customer service, and good value.

Now in the context of Magic vs Snow, Magic can't offer the same product as Snow (which is snowmaking), so they offer the 'au naturale' experience, which is only appealing to a small segment of the market who don't already go to MRG. The rest of the market demands a product that is not an experience--specifically that there is snow and reliable lifts and operations. Magic doesn't have that reliability in terms of snow and operations because of its aged state.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

(because the average skier skis maybe 5 days a season), and fast lifts.

What I want: variety of terrain, challenge, good customer service, and good value.

Wouldn't the average skier also want good customer service and good value? Also, what do you consider good customer service?

 

[arik]

A lot of my friends at work in NYC ask me for advice where to go, many of them have kids, I have the impression they are looking for good grooming, no ice, a variety of accessible (easy) terrain, and value. I send them to Stratton, Mount Snow, Bromley. I often reccomend Berkshire east but always with a disclaimer of "it's small but REALLY nice and no crowds."

 

[tekweezle]

i think the masses are looking for

good trail layout wall to wall coverage on groomed trails w/ no icy or bare spots, good snow is the key.

fast efficient lifts

decent, inexpensive food at the lodges

not too expensive tickets, separate areas for beginners and experts.

yeah, most newbie skiers I recommend Stratton or Okemo or Windham. i tell them it;s worth the extra money so that their ski "experience" is pretty high. as they get better and more experienced, i can then recommend other places that are more challenging.

 

[skiadikt]

if "beaming" was perfected i'd be out west chasing the best snow every weekend but it's not so i'm stuck w/ the least coast. i'm looking for the most interesting terrain & best snow conditions w/ an emphasis on nat snow trails within my driving threshold. if i had my druthers i'd probably have a pass at sugarbush which makes mrg an option with stowe & killington an hour away if needed. however the mrv is out of my weekly driving threshold at this point so i'm at k which meets most of my requirements: within my driving threshold, interesting natural terrain, reliable snowmaking though a bit too much grooming in recent years. at this point i couldn't give a poop about apres or services. beam me up scotty ...

 

[kcyanks1]

I'd think the majority would like nice, slope-side accommodations; good food; grooming; and fast lifts.

 

[St. Bear]

i think the masses are looking for

good trail layout wall to wall coverage on groomed trails w/ no icy or bare spots, good snow is the key.

fast efficient lifts

decent, inexpensive food at the lodges

not too expensive tickets, separate areas for beginners and experts.

yeah, most newbie skiers I recommend Stratton or Okemo or Windham. i tell them it;s worth the extra money so that their ski "experience" is pretty high. as they get better and more experienced, i can then recommend other places that are more challenging.

Just throwing in my $0.02. These are the exact things my mother looks for in a ski area, and I think she would be considered an "average" skier.

PS - her favorite NH area is Loon

 

[2knees]

vast majority, in my opinion, value, ease of access, expansive grooming and snowmaking along with solid intermediate terrain and high speed lifts.

i put the casual 3-10 ski day families in that group.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wouldn't the average skier also want good customer service and good value?

Yes, but the other criteria I think drive the decision more than service...if it is average, they'd be happy.

Also, what do you consider good customer service?

In particular, feeling that my business is wanted and appreciated (as it has been at my home mountain) and responsiveness of management to concerns of customers.

 

[mikestaple]

As one of the "vast majority" (m@sshole in SUV cruising around with kiddies from toddler to tweens), it really breaks down into two camps - vacation needs vs day trips.

On vacation, I need (yes, that's "lazy man / grumpy daddy" needs) ski on, ski off with the wee ones. Decent snow (no ice), access to lessons, a variety of steeps. So, the littlest ones can get dumped in lessons, the 5 and ups can go with mom and dad on the blues, and those 9 and up can start to flex their machismo and go through the easy glades and not so steep blacks. And a pool I can sneak a beer into after skiing to keep them and dad happy. So, Okemo really fits this bill. Bretton Woods doesn't have the steep (seriously, 7 year olds are tired of it, but they have a nice pool). Attitash - especially for the older tweens - is a step up on some of the steeps and their on slope hotel is nice.

For day trips - it's all about distance and snow conditions. So, for me (30 miles south of Boston) that's Loon and south. Next year, I really have to get the crew up to Ragged and Crotched.

 

[rachelv]

This isn't really a factor when you're comparing Magic and Mt. Snow, but I think accessibility is huge for anyone driving more than a few hours to ski. As close to a major interstate as possible, smaller roads with good passing lanes, etc. If I can ski somewhere that's 80% as good but spend an hour less in the car, I'll pretty much do it every time.

 

[RISkier]

I'd start by asking what are some of the common characteristics of areas that really pack in the crowds have in common (other than good location, which I think is really critical in terms of skier visits). In terms of areas I'm thinking of places like Loon, Sunapee, Okemo, Mt. Snow, Stratton and on a smaller scale Wachusett, Jiminy, etc. They seem to offer extensive snowmaking with lots of immaculately groomed terrain. They have one or more high speed lifts and generally lots of intermediate terrain. They also generally have decent if not nice lodges and often offer lots of child friendly programs. So those are the things that I think make places attractive to the masses. I don't think the "masses" post much on ski discussion forums.

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't think the "masses" post much on ski discussion forums.

+ 1.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I don't think the masses are as picky and critical as us either...

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't think the masses are as picky and critical as us either...

+ 1.

 

[mikestaple]

It's funny to watch the masses - the non-fortunate masses that don't live in MRV areas etc - move up the skiing ladder.

Families with little ones - Wachusetts, Bretton Woods. Then the kids get a little more independent and we move onto Okemo, Loon, Attitash, Black. And then when the kids can really tool around the mountain, Stowe, Sugarbush etc come into play.

I've seen so many families make that progression. I feel fortunate to have learned and had my very young kids learn at Sugarloaf. It is a haul, but what a beautiful mountain and fantastic experience - even for us masses. And, odd enough, even for the 10,000 plus posters on ski message boards!

 

[mondeo]

Blue groomers, with some greens thrown in. That's what the masses want.

From what I remember, the average skier gets out somewhere around 5 days per year.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I always like to put myself in other peoples shoes. It works well in any type of business where the focus is to attract the customer. On the most crowded days at Blue, I actually pretend that I'm a average Joe and try to blend in with everybody. I tuck my ski pants into my boots, carry my skis like a guitar and ask random people if the lift goes all the way to the top. On theses days..people bitch about long liftlines but they are happy to be out skiing whether it's icy or piles of sugar. For me if it's crowded, icy and piles of mad sweet and low, I'm not as happy because I can't bomb down the runs with all the people and the liftlines cut into the vert..plus piles of mad sweet and low stink for carvings and the landings of the booters are concrete.

For ordinary Joes..they just don't notice those things and they gladly pay top dollar for fast food..Chef Ramsey would call most ski area food rubbish but people are hungry and they don't always plan ahead and pack lunches like the move savvy skiers and riders do. I think I want the fast lifts and better snow conditions more than the average Joe. I do get a kick out of people who look at my fat skis like they're Double D's..quit drooling and ski down Lazy Mile.

For destination resorts, it's all about slopeside..it's a status thing. I actually prefer staying in town..like the town of Stowe or Jackson where nightlife is close by...but some skitowns are right at the base of the mountain like Whistler and Hunter.

Extras: The vast majority want extras..things that are a gimmick to the avid skier are mad steezy to the casual skier. Heated Gondolas, tubing, ski valets, fireworks, mountain tours, dogsledding, ice-skating, Smores...for the vast majority skiing is something casual like going to the movies, an amusement park or sporting event. It's not a lifestyle or passion...so these people are likely not gonna want to ski Bell to Bell and want to take part in other activities. The majority of people who go on ski trips longer than a weekend don't ski everyday of their trip so they want other options..

 

[tekweezle]

i don;t think t;s really the well funded destination resorts that are hurting as badly right now.

it;s the smaller, mostly family run day trip ski areas that are in danger of getting swamped by the economic downturn and bad snow conditions, these are the guys that need to figure out how to stay profitable and attract skier visits. obviously not everyone can be an Okemo or a Stowe. However, I think there exists a fine balance where these day trip "feeder hills" can exist. I think the industry needs them as a low cost way of introducing people to skiing.

maybe some of these smaller ski areas can band together with a larger destination resort, offer some sort of reciprocal ticket. Maybe the bigger resorts ought to find a way to help out the little guys.

on another note, how many of you actually buy the food they sell in the lodge, overpriced as it may be? or do you cheap out and brown bag it? when i was younger and funds were more scarce, I used to do that. nowadays, If I am breaking for lunch, I tend to stop in the lodge as a way of supporting the ski areas.