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What would you do?? - Magic Mtn Edition

deadheadskier

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I learned how to snowboard in the 80s at the old learning area. I have no recollection of it being difficult to access from the lodge. I thought it was a perfect learning area.
 

oompaloompa

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certainly agree that a sequestered beginner area safe from other skier/rider traffic would be ideal, and on the convenience aspect i'll concede to those that were actually there. unlike myself. : )
 
Last edited:

SkiingInABlueDream

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How did Magic stay afloat from the season it reopened to say, the mid-00's? I didn't rack up a huge number of days there during that period, but I do remember mid season, good-conditions weekend days, as well as midweek powder days, where the smaller lot barely filled and the entire place - the mountain, lift queue, even the lodge - felt empty. And back then the place was open 7 days per week IIRC.
How did Magic stay in the black back then?
 

Do Work

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That's a tough question.

First I'd have to connect the upper and lower loops on the snow making system and chase out any and all leaks we could possibly find. That means Wiz/Sorcerer/Tali is all 100% and the whole east side is good to go too. This honestly won't cost much, it would just take time.

Then I'd invest in better water pumps and more electrical grid to run more fan guns in more places. Also a basic excavation of the snowmaking pond, nothing too crazy though.

At this point we're probably right around $500k, realistically and done right.

Once snowmaking is dialed, I'd have to say I'd be all about putting a T-bar in the old rabbit run learning area. Someday I think it would be nice to have a carpet bring you there but for now maybe Taylor Farm would lease out their awesome horsedrawn wagon to bring customers to the upper condo lot and a little warming yurt? I dunno... Thinking cheap and unique here... That 5 mil's gotta go a long way. Total investment probably around $70-100k for that, maybe a little more depending on the length of the T-Bar.

Now that the snow and kiddies are set, those fucking Mountain Dew skis are getting burned aka 'sacrificed to Ullr' and replaced with a basic used fleet of Volkls or whatever from UT/CO resort. Whatever. Call it another $10k for that or so.

Round it up to this point and call it $750k just to be safe. That means we've got $4.25M left to work with.

Realistically we are never going to get a full lift for that kind of money so flat out replacing the black chair is out, so we would pretty much have to just fix it and run it until our successful new business could bankroll enough capital for a full replacement. The Red Chair is never going anywhere, so just stockpile spare parts and keep ahead of the curve with upkeep and maintenance. My next thought is that *assuming* the Green Chair just needs all sheave trains, chairs and bearings etc. we could likely get that up and running for way WAY under a million. I've heard conflicting info about the towers to that chair, but nothing from anyone that holds weight and works with them tbh, so I'm inclined to suspect that the towers are in alignment enough to string and actually use without reinstalling towers. Having a lower mountain lift would allow Magic to open weeks earlier in the season and would allow them to begin to recoup summer investments much sooner. Also it would be great to have on East Side race days and for beginners. To me, the low investment to get it running and the added ability to start the season sooner would be a huge benefit to Magic and that investment would pay for itself sooner than most think. Access to beginner only terrain is actually a pretty big problem for Magic IMO and needs to be dealt with as a priority moving forward.

Now say *worst case* we just spent a million getting the green chair up and running... That brings us up to $3.25M.

Buy another BR350 cat exactly like the one they already have. Round up and call it $250k for that

Gut the lodge. Move the bar in front of the big windows and fix all the floors, blow the ceilings out to the rafters, modern keg system and food running dumbwaiter, replace much of the kitchen appliances and generally shore the place up top to bottom. Call that another $300k

Now is when I'd like to discuss seasonal allocations. I'd peel off at least $300k for the Ops Manager as an operating budget for the beginning of the season and tell him to make a plan to get the mountain open as fast as possible. That should cover air compressors, the first few diesel deliveries and a bunch of parts we're going to need for groomers etc.


Now we're down to $2.4Mish.

Now I'd pick up a new (used) excavator. Sounds silly to some, but there's only snow on the hill for a little while, and much of the hard work is done in the summer- having the right tools is key and magic rents an excavator now. Not ideal. Call that $100k.

New Patrol top shack. It's needed badly. Cheap but necessary. $50k

Down to $2.25M

Now that we're past the meat of the expenditures and still have some money to throw around. First off, I'd get Alex Kaufman back on the horn and get his ass back in the Marketing seat because we need a pro who understands media, the market and the industry itself. I don't care what it costs, we need him or someone like him badly. I'd allocate as much as they though was pertinent to capture the attention of the public up to $500k. We'd need to let Bromley, Stratton, Okemo and Killy skiers know there was a viable alternative. Let them know there's steep bumps, trees, new lifts and a new beginner area to check out, y'know?

Say that overall cost $550k. That brings us down to $1.7M, which honestly I'd simply bankroll to have on hand to cover operating expenses, payroll, fixes and the inevitable surprises that come with operating a ski resort. I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but that's the basic idea- Build up from the most basic needs, bolster our ability to provide a consistent and dependable product and market like hell. Can't spend every penny though, you've got to keep the long term needs in focus too.
 

crank

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Interesting question.

I would invest a lot in snowmaking, concentrating on the expert terrain.

The marketing would target serious skiers in NYC/NJ/CT metro areas. Something along the lines of - Now you don't need to make the long drive to Northern VT to ski the steeps. We all know Magic has great terrain, but my perception is that great terrain is hardly ever open... get it open, keep it open, hammer that message ad infinitum.

If there was any $ left it would go into upgrading the lifts.

I think with Mt Snow, Startton, Okemo all in the area you have to market your difference - the terrain. You will never compete on snowmaking/grooming.
 
Last edited:

Newpylong

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Dec 20, 2005
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That's a tough question.

First I'd have to connect the upper and lower loops on the snow making system and chase out any and all leaks we could possibly find. That means Wiz/Sorcerer/Tali is all 100% and the whole east side is good to go too. This honestly won't cost much, it would just take time.

Then I'd invest in better water pumps and more electrical grid to run more fan guns in more places. Also a basic excavation of the snowmaking pond, nothing too crazy though.

At this point we're probably right around $500k, realistically and done right.

Once snowmaking is dialed, I'd have to say I'd be all about putting a T-bar in the old rabbit run learning area. Someday I think it would be nice to have a carpet bring you there but for now maybe Taylor Farm would lease out their awesome horsedrawn wagon to bring customers to the upper condo lot and a little warming yurt? I dunno... Thinking cheap and unique here... That 5 mil's gotta go a long way. Total investment probably around $70-100k for that, maybe a little more depending on the length of the T-Bar.

Now that the snow and kiddies are set, those fucking Mountain Dew skis are getting burned aka 'sacrificed to Ullr' and replaced with a basic used fleet of Volkls or whatever from UT/CO resort. Whatever. Call it another $10k for that or so.

Round it up to this point and call it $750k just to be safe. That means we've got $4.25M left to work with.

Realistically we are never going to get a full lift for that kind of money so flat out replacing the black chair is out, so we would pretty much have to just fix it and run it until our successful new business could bankroll enough capital for a full replacement. The Red Chair is never going anywhere, so just stockpile spare parts and keep ahead of the curve with upkeep and maintenance. My next thought is that *assuming* the Green Chair just needs all sheave trains, chairs and bearings etc. we could likely get that up and running for way WAY under a million. I've heard conflicting info about the towers to that chair, but nothing from anyone that holds weight and works with them tbh, so I'm inclined to suspect that the towers are in alignment enough to string and actually use without reinstalling towers. Having a lower mountain lift would allow Magic to open weeks earlier in the season and would allow them to begin to recoup summer investments much sooner. Also it would be great to have on East Side race days and for beginners. To me, the low investment to get it running and the added ability to start the season sooner would be a huge benefit to Magic and that investment would pay for itself sooner than most think. Access to beginner only terrain is actually a pretty big problem for Magic IMO and needs to be dealt with as a priority moving forward.

Now say *worst case* we just spent a million getting the green chair up and running... That brings us up to $3.25M.

Buy another BR350 cat exactly like the one they already have. Round up and call it $250k for that

Gut the lodge. Move the bar in front of the big windows and fix all the floors, blow the ceilings out to the rafters, modern keg system and food running dumbwaiter, replace much of the kitchen appliances and generally shore the place up top to bottom. Call that another $300k

Now is when I'd like to discuss seasonal allocations. I'd peel off at least $300k for the Ops Manager as an operating budget for the beginning of the season and tell him to make a plan to get the mountain open as fast as possible. That should cover air compressors, the first few diesel deliveries and a bunch of parts we're going to need for groomers etc.


Now we're down to $2.4Mish.

Now I'd pick up a new (used) excavator. Sounds silly to some, but there's only snow on the hill for a little while, and much of the hard work is done in the summer- having the right tools is key and magic rents an excavator now. Not ideal. Call that $100k.

New Patrol top shack. It's needed badly. Cheap but necessary. $50k

Down to $2.25M

Now that we're past the meat of the expenditures and still have some money to throw around. First off, I'd get Alex Kaufman back on the horn and get his ass back in the Marketing seat because we need a pro who understands media, the market and the industry itself. I don't care what it costs, we need him or someone like him badly. I'd allocate as much as they though was pertinent to capture the attention of the public up to $500k. We'd need to let Bromley, Stratton, Okemo and Killy skiers know there was a viable alternative. Let them know there's steep bumps, trees, new lifts and a new beginner area to check out, y'know?

Say that overall cost $550k. That brings us down to $1.7M, which honestly I'd simply bankroll to have on hand to cover operating expenses, payroll, fixes and the inevitable surprises that come with operating a ski resort. I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but that's the basic idea- Build up from the most basic needs, bolster our ability to provide a consistent and dependable product and market like hell. Can't spend every penny though, you've got to keep the long term needs in focus too.

This. I vote you for president.
 

Tin

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I can obviously see snow on Tali, Sorcerer, Broomstick to Heart. Anyway to blow and push on Black Line with those ledge sections? Would allow Witch to open as well.
 

Newpylong

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I can obviously see snow on Tali, Sorcerer, Broomstick to Heart. Anyway to blow and push on Black Line with those ledge sections? Would allow Witch to open as well.

No pipes on Broomstick or Heart and too far to drag. Might not be worth installing if you have Witch to Black, Talisman and Sorcerer with good snow over there.

Witch to Lower Black has pipes.
 

Hado226

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Think Broomstick is just too narrow to reasonably blow snow on without clear cutting above and below the terrace. Master to Heart could work, if the loose rock was flattened and filled enough to get a winch cat on. (See Matt's excavator need)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Do Work

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I can obviously see snow on Tali, Sorcerer, Broomstick to Heart. Anyway to blow and push on Black Line with those ledge sections? Would allow Witch to open as well.



Yes. They don't groom the ledges, but you can take the groomer straight down broomstick and carry that all the way over onto black, where it then can groom down to the ledges and then jump back over to Heart on that cross trail, so it gives intermediates a chance to ski Blackline without sending anything they aren't ready for. Black is also piped for snow too, as is Witch. I've heard they used to blow in Witch and middle black and go straight down Witch with the groomer. I don't really see the merit in that personally but it's interesting nonetheless.


Also to the poster above, there isn't much space to blow on broomstick but you can just keep blowing it on Wiz (and I believe the snowmaking line covers it below magician iirc) and then keep cat pushing it down Bstick. It would be way easier than trying to open Master and is actually a great connector trail- and a fun run to boot. Broomstick is funny in that it actually catches a TON of snow though. On a decent snow year they generally don't have to do anything but iron out the moguls and push it down broomstick fwiw.
 

Hado226

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Never said Master would be easy, but it would be a hell of a selling point to have it legitimately open more than a couple days a decade.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

slatham

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I'll second the vote for Do Work as President. Though I would argue for a chair lift in the old Hocus Pocus beginner area rather than a T-bar.

On snowmaking, I think you need new low-e guns to allow compressor power to go further and cut ongoing snowmaking costs.

I also believe there is plenty of pipe on the mountain so I would make sure its all on-line and compressors, pumps, guns, electrical and budget are all taken care of well before adding new pipes (as much as I'd like to see Magician and Heart of Magician have snowmaking).

So who's got the $5M and when can we start?
 

mtl1076

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Yes. They don't groom the ledges, but you can take the groomer straight down broomstick and carry that all the way over onto black, where it then can groom down to the ledges and then jump back over to Heart on that cross trail, so it gives intermediates a chance to ski Blackline without sending anything they aren't ready for. Black is also piped for snow too, as is Witch. I've heard they used to blow in Witch and middle black and go straight down Witch with the groomer. I don't really see the merit in that personally but it's interesting nonetheless.


Also to the poster above, there isn't much space to blow on broomstick but you can just keep blowing it on Wiz (and I believe the snowmaking line covers it below magician iirc) and then keep cat pushing it down Bstick. It would be way easier than trying to open Master and is actually a great connector trail- and a fun run to boot. Broomstick is funny in that it actually catches a TON of snow though. On a decent snow year they generally don't have to do anything but iron out the moguls and push it down broomstick fwiw.

Man made snow on Broomstick or Upper Magician would get crazy slick. Keep it natural on those trails. The yellow groomer has a winch, right?

And what happened to the 307 Excavator?
 

Do Work

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I would argue for a chair lift in the old Hocus Pocus beginner area rather than a T-bar.



Yeah that would be nice but it's a MASSIVE jump in cost and we also have to remember there's a half dozen ziplines over Rabbit Run right now. A surface lift would negate a lot of the problems we may run into otherwise, and even that may need mitigating. I think a T-bar would be pretty much perfect, given the lower investment and steepish learning curve across the rest of the mountain. It just fits IMO.

*sigh*

Alas, it's all just a dream.
 

Do Work

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Man made snow on Broomstick or Upper Magician would get crazy slick. Keep it natural on those trails. The yellow groomer has a winch, right?

And what happened to the 307 Excavator?


Their big dog excavator they rent. They have a little guy, but it's outgunned regularly and requires finesse to get a lot of jobs done.

The 350 does have a winch, but we would need to put in anchor points before it would do any good so I guess add that to our dream list haha
 

mtl1076

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Their big dog excavator they rent. They have a little guy, but it's outgunned regularly and requires finesse to get a lot of jobs done.

The 350 does have a winch, but we would need to put in anchor points before it would do any good so I guess add that to our dream list haha

Use the purple groomer as the anchor. And yeah, the 307 certainly isn't a big one. She was a live saver at the time and Todd was a magician with that thing. :)
 

Skipoint0

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Full reno for the lodge to make it up to par, and then some new snowmaking pumps and compressors. Over the following years, Replace the snowmaking pipes in full, a new Pistenbully 600, and a well needed quad chair to replace Red Double. With Black triple being the only Pholig lift ever in the US, id like to see it restored with replica chairs of the original. After that, invest in expansion of snowmaking equipment, and possibly reopen Timberside with a Quad. It only takes money.
 

bdfreetuna

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keep the faith
Never said Master would be easy, but it would be a hell of a selling point to have it legitimately open more than a couple days a decade.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Put some wooden boards over the pipes at the top of Master and blast out a rock or two and I don't see why that trail couldn't be open most decent snow years.

Last two years I never saw it open but it looked skiable if you avoided some serious rock outcrops.
 
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