Yet another Subaru thread...

[Edd]

This explains why I'm not comfortable with the prices I've been seeing on the latest models; also a bit of diesel and hybrid info.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10377802-48.html?tag=mncol;posts

 

[riverc0il]

Does not look like they are taking the USA consumer diesel market very seriously. That is disappointing that they are going to react to demand instead of leading the market. The demand will be there once gas prices start going up again. Below $3 a gallon gas is a temporary thing and I can't imagine it is going to last much past the point that most economists believe the worst has past in the recession. It is really a bummer that they already have these models across the pond but won't bring them over to the USA. Seems like some dealers are saying they should go that way too. I don't think a hybrid Subaru would do as well as a diesel Subaru, just my opinion though.

 

[Philpug]

Does not look like they are taking the USA consumer diesel market very seriously. That is disappointing that they are going to react to demand instead of leading the market. The demand will be there once gas prices start going up again. Below $3 a gallon gas is a temporary thing and I can't imagine it is going to last much past the point that most economists believe the worst has past in the recession. It is really a bummer that they already have these models across the pond but won't bring them over to the USA. Seems like some dealers are saying they should go that way too. I don't think a hybrid Subaru would do as well as a diesel Subaru, just my opinion though.

The current hybrids are "feel good technology", diesels are so much better that what is available now and even the next generation. Just look at the sales and demand for the Jetta TDI, that car shares 90% of the same demographics with Subaru.

 

[riverc0il]

The current hybrids are "feel good technology", diesels are so much better that what is available now and even the next generation. Just look at the sales and demand for the Jetta TDI, that car shares 90% of the same demographics with Subaru.

I am not familiar with the Jetta TDI sales or demand. But I do know that vehicle is at the top of my short list and replaced the Subaru. Too bad the Jetta TDI wagon is so lacking in the exterior style department. Come to think of it, I have seen a LOT of Jetta wagons around and have noticed the TDI badge on a few vehicles around campus lately. I didn't even know Jetta had a wagon version, let alone a diesel, until this past summer when I started to looking for wagon alternatives.

Regarding hybrids, they are more than feel good technology. But I think they are best for city driving (though electric plug ins are going to be WAY better than hybrids for that!). When you spend 4 hours round trip on the road driving mostly highway, hybrids are useless.

 

[Glenn]

The problem with diesels is the price of diesel itself. When gas rises, so will diesel. It would also help if certain states like Crapneticut wouldn't tax diesel so heavly as another ploy to make up for governments' lack of fiscal responsibility. But I suppose that's another thread entirely. :razz:

 

[riverc0il]

Price on diesel does not seemed tied to regular gas. But it never seems to get that much higher, significantly so. Even if it did, 1/4 - 1/3 MPG improvement more than makes up for the difference and then some. The savings will only go up that much more as both regular and diesel continue to rise and the percentage difference between the two will decrease over time. For the long term, I think diesel is the way to go.

 

[Edd]

Quote from the article: "On the other hand, the current market share of diesel models in the United States is quite low. "

No shit Sherlock. The choice of diesel models for consumers hovers slightly above non-existent. Give the U.S. a diesel Camry / Accord / Malibu and so forth and I bet that diesel market share will hit the moon.

 

[ctenidae]

Diesel and gas prices used to be closely tied, but not so much anymore, mostly becasue Europe uses more diesel, and so have an excess of gasoline being made there, most of which ships to the US.

For the past few years, diesel has been more expensive than gas in the US, in part because of the 10% alcohol mix in gas- to make ultra low sulfur diesel you need hydrogen, which is a byproduct of gasoline refining, which has been reduced by the 10% alcohol.

It's all very very complicated.

 

[Marc]

Diesel and gas prices used to be closely tied, but not so much anymore, mostly becasue Europe uses more diesel, and so have an excess of gasoline being made there, most of which ships to the US.

For the past few years, diesel has been more expensive than gas in the US, in part because of the 10% alcohol mix in gas- to make ultra low sulfur diesel you need hydrogen, which is a byproduct of gasoline refining, which has been reduced by the 10% alcohol.

It's all very very complicated.

Pipes and tubes. That's all we need to know.

 

[Glenn]

It's all very very complicated.

Life would be a lot easier if we had one blend of gasoline used year round at every gas station in the country. All this seasonal bullshit and things just get stupid. It would be like building cars and putting a different engine in based on what day of the week it is. The cost of production would go up.

 

[ctenidae]

Life would be a lot easier if we had one blend of gasoline used year round at every gas station in the country. All this seasonal bullshit and things just get stupid. It would be like building cars and putting a different engine in based on what day of the week it is. The cost of production would go up.

Even better if you had to change the engine bassed on the day of the week AND the state you were driving in. Which they do with gasoline.

Two interesting things- if Markey-Waxman is enacted as it stands, then by 2050 we won't be able to burn any fossil fuels whatsoever, due to CO2 emissions standards. None. Every car, heater, gas stove, tempering oven, power plant adn gas fireplace will ahve to be replaced with electric. Queston is, where does that electricty come from?

If Boxer-Kerry is enacted, carbon taxes levied on US refineries will likely make them completely uneconomic, meaning we have to import foreign distillates. The alternative is to put a tariff on imported gas and diesel, which is likely to raise WTO problems.

We're all going to Hell. The only question is if you want a window seat or prefer the aisle.

 

[wa-loaf]

I hate the seats in my Outback.

 

[deadheadskier]

I hate the seats in my Outback.

I could waste a heckuva lotta bandwith here going over what I couldn't stand about the Subaru I drove for the past year and a half, but you all know by now....it's well documented that I'm not a fan. :lol: Thankfully it now resides back in NJ, hopefully destined for a landfill such that another driver is spared from having to drive that piece of crap.


Only thing else I will say is that I hate the local Subaru dealership as much as I did the car. The whole front row, everything you can see from the road are used cars with only a couple of them being Subarus. And these are not nice late model cars, most are pieces of crap. Looking at the place from the road, if it weren't for the sign, you'd have no idea that it was a Subaru dealership. You would think with the new model launches this year that they'd have a row of nice new Outbacks and Legacy Sedans right out front with balloons on them. Nope, just crappy used cars.

okay, I'm done; until the next Subaru thread. :lol:

 

[mondeo]

Quote from the article: "On the other hand, the current market share of diesel models in the United States is quite low. "

No shit Sherlock. The choice of diesel models for consumers hovers slightly above non-existent. Give the U.S. a diesel Camry / Accord / Malibu and so forth and I bet that diesel market share will hit the moon.

GM should hire you. If that's all it took to make Malibus outsell Camrys and Accords, they'd probably be making a profit within a year.

He noted more than once that demand for diesels is low. Demand is what people want, not what companies are actually supplying. Most Americans think of diesels as loud, clunky, low powered, ans smokey. With gas costs being as low as they are, there's nothing driving Americans to really challenge their preconceptions of what diesels are like or pay more for them up front. Subaru's making the right move. They have diesel engines developed, but it doesn't make sense to pass them through American standards testing until the market is ready for them.

 

[Edd]

GM should hire you. If that's all it took to make Malibus outsell Camrys and Accords, they'd probably be making a profit within a year.

He noted more than once that demand for diesels is low. Demand is what people want, not what companies are actually supplying. Most Americans think of diesels as loud, clunky, low powered, ans smokey. With gas costs being as low as they are, there's nothing driving Americans to really challenge their preconceptions of what diesels are like or pay more for them up front. Subaru's making the right move. They have diesel engines developed, but it doesn't make sense to pass them through American standards testing until the market is ready for them.

I think availability can contribute towards creating demand, and availability is what the U.S. lacks when it comes to diesels. I hear demand for diesels on this board, in fact, within this thread. I'm sure further demand exists outside of this board.

Also, Subaru is not known for excellent gas mileage, and it's easy to wonder if that spokesman is minimizing the urgency for diesels / hybrids to justify the slow response in bringing higher mileage models to the U.S.

If mainstream models start coming with a diesel option they will certainly move when the gas price skyrockets again.

 

[wa-loaf]

Only thing else I will say is that I hate the local Subaru dealership as much as I did the car. The whole front row, everything you can see from the road are used cars with only a couple of them being Subarus. And these are not nice late model cars, most are pieces of crap. Looking at the place from the road, if it weren't for the sign, you'd have no idea that it was a Subaru dealership. You would think with the new model launches this year that they'd have a row of nice new Outbacks and Legacy Sedans right out front with balloons on them. Nope, just crappy used cars.

okay, I'm done; until the next Subaru thread. :lol:

Sounds like the exception to the rule. My last dealer had a nice selection of new cars in front all the time and wifi in the waiting room. Anytime I needed work done I'd just take my laptop in and work remotely.

Haven't been to Patrick yet, my new closest dealer, but they look alright from the outside.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

I could waste a heckuva lotta bandwith here going over what I couldn't stand about the Subaru I drove for the past year and a half, but you all know by now....it's well documented that I'm not a fan. :lol: Thankfully it now resides back in NJ, hopefully destined for a landfill such that another driver is spared from having to drive that piece of crap.


Only thing else I will say is that I hate the local Subaru dealership as much as I did the car. The whole front row, everything you can see from the road are used cars with only a couple of them being Subarus. And these are not nice late model cars, most are pieces of crap. Looking at the place from the road, if it weren't for the sign, you'd have no idea that it was a Subaru dealership. You would think with the new model launches this year that they'd have a row of nice new Outbacks and Legacy Sedans right out front with balloons on them. Nope, just crappy used cars.

okay, I'm done; until the next Subaru thread. :lol:

no shit! Exeter Subaru completely sucks in the curb appeal dept. you've got to drive into the lot to catch a glimpse of anything subaru. looks like a used car lot.

 

[Glenn]

Even better if you had to change the engine bassed on the day of the week AND the state you were driving in. Which they do with gasoline.

Two interesting things- if Markey-Waxman is enacted as it stands, then by 2050 we won't be able to burn any fossil fuels whatsoever, due to CO2 emissions standards. None. Every car, heater, gas stove, tempering oven, power plant adn gas fireplace will ahve to be replaced with electric. Queston is, where does that electricty come from?

If Boxer-Kerry is enacted, carbon taxes levied on US refineries will likely make them completely uneconomic, meaning we have to import foreign distillates. The alternative is to put a tariff on imported gas and diesel, which is likely to raise WTO problems.

We're all going to Hell. The only question is if you want a window seat or prefer the aisle.

Some excellent points. It really makes you wonder, doesn't it? It would be nice to have solutions and alternatives before we just start doing away with things.

On the diesel thing...I agree with demand. There's a lot of enthusiasm on forums...or even in magazines for certain models. But that makes up a really small percentage of the buying public. I think the diesels today are really amazing; they're quiet, clean, they have gobs of torque and the drive in a similar way to gasoline engines.

However, when people think of diesels, they think of smelly school busses, sticky gasoline station pumps and exploding engines from the early 80's when GM converted some of their gasoline engines over to diesel power.

 

[deadheadskier]

no shit! Exeter Subaru completely sucks in the curb appeal dept. you've got to drive into the lot to catch a glimpse of anything subaru. looks like a used car lot.

compounding the craptastic look of the place are the beautiful Porche, Audi and BMW dealerships just up the road. Obviously different target market, but I'm still dumbfounded by Exeter's decision to appear like a used car lot.

Camp, if you're ever in the Seacoast area, you have to check this place out. I'd imagine you'd walk right in and tell the manager what a moron he is. :lol:

 

[wa-loaf]

compounding the craptastic look of the place are the beautiful Porche, Audi and BMW dealerships just up the road. Obviously different target market, but I'm still dumbfounded by Exeter's decision to appear like a used car lot.

Camp, if you're ever in the Seacoast area, you have to check this place out. I'd imagine you'd walk right in and tell the manager what a moron he is. :lol:

I think some photos are in order here! :razz: