Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[jimmywilson69]

There is a lot of LOL comments in here...

Have the bus people use the bus as a lodge might be one of the most clueless things I've ever heard. Most of the time the bus unloads near the lodge and often times leaves or goes to a remote parking area to stay out of the way.

I dont think limiting time in the lodge is a good thing. However, there should be some enforcement of people saving entire 8 person tables all day...

I often boot at the car but it's also nice to boot up in the lodge when I'm up north.

 

[PAabe]

One thing I really want to do sometime is take the Denver-Winter Park ski train - people apparently boot up when it gets to the 6 mile tunnel under the continental divide and when it comes out you are right at the bottom of the lifts! Plenty of room to boot up on a train. They hand you the skis out of the baggage car and you are ready to go! No slippery roads, no traffic, no worrying about being tired on the drive back, you can get up and walk around to the snack bar and bathroom, and you have one of those big fat Amtrak seats to chill in.

I would love it if there were more opportunities to take the bus/train to the ski hill, however, public transport not doing so hot rn due to corona

 

[deadheadskier]

One thing I really want to do sometime is take the Denver-Winter Park ski train - people apparently boot up when it gets to the 6 mile tunnel under the continental divide and when it comes out you are right at the bottom of the lifts! Plenty of room to boot up on a train. They hand you the skis out of the baggage car and you are ready to go! No slippery roads, no traffic, no worrying about being tired on the drive back, you can get up and walk around to the snack bar and bathroom, and you have one of those big fat Amtrak seats to chill in.

I would love it if there were more opportunities to take the bus/train to the ski hill, however, public transport not doing so hot rn due to corona

My cousin lives in Tokyo. Most residents of the city go skiing via bullet train. Pretty cool

 

[KustyTheKlown]

the winter park ski train is not very practical - it doesn't run very often and is pretty expensive, and if you are there for more than a day trip and aren't staying at the base of winter park, you are then dependent on the local bus system.

i am all for capacity regulation staying in place at most places, and the base lodges can all burn to the ground. i'd love to permanently not have to join other parties on lifts too, but that one is prob least likely to stay in place.

 

[abc]

if you are there for more than a day trip and aren't staying at the base of winter park, you are then dependent on the local bus system.

Which is actually quite convenient.

But I agree the ski train seems way too expensive.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Which is actually quite convenient.

But I agree the ski train seems way too expensive.

i know i should embrace public transit, but in my experience in ski towns, waiting for the bus totally sucks. the ideal situation is a small walkable urban street grid a la aspen, breckenridge, etc. absent that, i'll stick with my personal vehicle. 'murica.

 

[rebel1916]

Next year, I look forward to booting up in the lodge, leaving my bag in a cubby and lifties keeping the line moving by vigorously jamming as many people onto lifts as possible.

 

[abc]

the ideal situation is a small walkable urban street grid a la aspen, breckenridge, etc. absent that, i'll stick with my personal vehicle. 'murica.

Aspen isn't that "small". It can be a very long walk from some of the lodgings.

but in my experience in ski towns, waiting for the bus totally sucks.

I'm most familiar with bus in Summit county Colorado. The buses there seems to fun quite close to schedule most of the times. I only go out to the bus stop a few minutes before they're due to show up. So the wait is usually short. Also, I forgot where, I remember one of the bus system have a real time "where's my bus" app so I can see if the bus I'm waiting on is on time or late. I then plan accordingly and avoid standing out in the cold for ages.

 

[JimG.]

I don't have kids, but I was a kid. I didn't say boot up in the bus. I said at the bus (aka outside it just like everyone is doing at their cars right now). As a kid, I don't remember once having to go back and get anything after I started skiing. What exactly are people forgetting so often that this is an issue? If you're missing your gloves, helmet, goggles, etc, wouldn't you realize that immediately as you start walking away from the bus? Only one time did I forget something (left my gloves in the condo on a warm spring day).

Well, as a parent I would not want to see my child booting up in a parking lot along with 50 other kids early in the morning while other skiers were racing through the parking lot looking for a parking spot. That's just asking for a liability lawsuit involving many parties.

Just my opinion I have no desire to argue this point with anyone.

 

[JimG.]

+1 on can't wait to boot up inside a lodge again. At the car sucks most days in the NE and I have a system dialed in with mats, chairs...even made a small clothes line in the back of my car for hanging up the face mask/gloves during lunch...still sucks. I also think the time saved by booting up at the car is moot when you have to huff back to it for lunch, when in a normal year you could pop off your skis and be at a table enjoying food in 30 seconds in a base lodge. Not a big deal for places where parking is close, but at a place like Sugarbush or Jiminy Peak it sucks a ton. Also your boots will thank you not going to/from the car on asphalt/concrete.

Also +1 on raising season pass prices. I'd be happy to pay $1000-$1500 for an Ikon pass because the on-hill experience would be soooo much better if you eliminated the 20...30...maybe 40% of the pass base that wouldn't pay those prices.

Agree on raising megapass prices...way too cheap.

I'd even be OK with a small increase on true season passes at single mountains. Maybe $100 or so.

 

[kancamagus]

IMHO, the "best" way of handling crowded base lodges in a post-COVID return to normal era is to put more emphasis on expanding mid-mountain and/or summit lodges.

At least then the higher elevation lodges are solely limited to folks with a lift ticket / pass, who likely have a lot more of a motivation to get back out onto the slopes after they've warmed up or refreshed themselves with [overpriced] concessions and libations.

An alternate proposal would be to implement a 45 minute time policy in the cafeteria section of base lodges, but build a separate "hotel lobby" section with chairs, couches, plenty of wall outlets, etc with no time limit. The non skiers would then just want to hang out in the more comfy seats, leaving the cafeteria tables open to skiers/riders looking for a relatively quick snack / meal / warm up break. Bonus points if the "non skier hotel lobby" is on something like the third floor to ensure the folks in ski boots don't need to trundle up to it.

 

[cdskier]

There is a lot of LOL comments in here...

Have the bus people use the bus as a lodge might be one of the most clueless things I've ever heard. Most of the time the bus unloads near the lodge and often times leaves or goes to a remote parking area to stay out of the way.

It is also rather funny how people take something way out of context and infer things that were never said. I never said to use the bus as a lodge. Re-read my first comment on the topic. I said the person I was replying to may have a valid point that bus groups have more of a need for a lodge than anyone else. Then I went on to say it also wouldn't be impossible for them to boot up at the bus (if lodges weren't an option). "Not impossible" does not mean I was advocating for it. Let's use another example of "not impossible" to illustrate this point. We had a thaw/freeze situation in the northeast this weekend. At Sugarbush even though we had a thaw on Friday and re-freeze Friday night, patrol had all 111 trails open for skiing Saturday morning. That means they didn't believe any trails were not impossible to be skied. That doesn't mean they were encouraging or recommending everyone go take a run down Rumble or Lift-Line or any other ungroomed trail when the lifts opened...

Well, as a parent I would not want to see my child booting up in a parking lot along with 50 other kids early in the morning while other skiers were racing through the parking lot looking for a parking spot. That's just asking for a liability lawsuit involving many parties.

Just my opinion I have no desire to argue this point with anyone.

From my experience, bus unload areas are usually separate from where people are actively parking. Plus people at the areas I'm most familiar with are generally pretty civilized with parking (particularly in the morning when you're directed by staff where to park...later in the day when people are all trying to find spots from people that left early might be a different story).

Out of curiosity, anyone know what bus groups did this year? Sure there may have been less of them, but don't anyone tell me there were none at all, because I've seen buses parked in the lots. I doubt the bus drivers were just out for a joy ride visiting a ski area parking lot.

 

[JimG.]

Out of curiosity, anyone know what bus groups did this year? Sure there may have been less of them, but don't anyone tell me there were none at all, because I've seen buses parked in the lots. I doubt the bus drivers were just out for a joy ride visiting a ski area parking lot.

The high schools in my area did not offer ski trips this season citing liability issues. At the ski areas I visited I did not see any buses this season.

Not saying there were no bus trips, just that there were none on the days I went skiing.

 

[PAabe]

Just speaking from my experience taking the ski bus in high school -

At Blue all the buses load and unload right in front of the main lodge and then go away to the back of the parking lot. We were not supposed to wear ski boots on the bus and were not able to get stuff from the bus after we unloaded.

We went to Stowe once and the buses were all parked in a lot by the double - we unloaded and loaded there.

I know the teacher who runs ski club, they had it this year but ski club it has always technically been through parks and rec rather than the school for liability reasons despite picking up right from the school parking lot.

Blue didn't want people leaving gear in the lodge this year so I have no clue what they did about that

 

[ctdubl07]

Next year, I look forward to booting up in the lodge, leaving my bag in a cubby and lifties keeping the line moving by vigorously jamming as many people onto lifts as possible.

Ha! Love that last part. I'm lucky enough to be one who doesn't need the lodge due to proximity.....I go over to grab lunch with my kids occasionally between sessions or over to Main area for apre. One idea I noted above that I would like for MS to evolve towards is no unattended bags on "floor". Initiating a mandatory bag storage (free) is a huge benefit to the while lodge community. Have at it for boot up, lunch then breakdown but in between, keep the floors open for better traffic and tables for equity. Yes, it would require some investment in storage space and a cultural shift that might take a bit but long term, it pays off and next season is the perfect time to begin the conversion.
I experienced this at Stratton over last few years of kids comps...the floor is patrolled for bags by ambassadors and the storage area can be busy at high times but I think it makes for a positive experience in the end.

 

[amf]

As someone who has bad knees, I find it physically difficult to walk any distance in ski boots. The different way my knee articulates when walking kills me. If I could boot up at the car and walk 50' to a ski trail I'd be fine, but that rarely happens. Having to boot up at the car, which would be parked who-knows-where, was actually what made me decide to pass on downhill skiing this season. As a result I got in 30 days of backcountry skiing!

 

[raisingarizona]

Clearly you don't have kids. Consider how that might "work out" with a bus on a high school bus trip. I assure you the bus driver isn't going to sit there and open and close the door all day to accommodate forgetful teenagers. And how will anyone be able to boot up in a crowded bus?

Let em learn the hard way. Get what you need at the start of the day. People are way too accommodating to kids these days, they need more tough lessons to get their heads out of their you know what’s.

I’m ok with booting up in the lodge as long as there’s a proper place to store your gear. On or under a table for paying customers is not the place. All day campers shouldn’t be ok either. Imagine if you had a restaurant, would you let paying customers stand to eat their food because a few people are camping out all day? I sure wouldn’t.

 

[raisingarizona]

As someone who has bad knees, I find it physically difficult to walk any distance in ski boots. The different way my knee articulates when walking kills me. If I could boot up at the car and walk 50' to a ski trail I'd be fine, but that rarely happens. Having to boot up at the car, which would be parked who-knows-where, was actually what made me decide to pass on downhill skiing this season. As a result I got in 30 days of backcountry skiing!

If it’s that hard to walk a few hundred feet in your boots then you probably shouldn’t still be skiing.

 

[JimG.]

Let em learn the hard way.

Oh, I don't have any issues with that; I'm not talking about my kids either.

But who wants the administrative and possible liability hassles from parents who don't think that way? Because their kid got cold and couldn't get something warmer to wear? I don't blame my area schools for bagging ski trips this season. And I would guess ski areas would not want to lose that business because they won't let kids in the lodge.

Let's face it, people are going to be going into lodges eventually, certainly by next season.

 

[rebel1916]

If it’s that hard to walk a few hundred feet in your boots then you probably shouldn’t still be skiing.

Well that's a shitty take.