World Cup

slatham · Nov 29, 2016

Smellytele said:
Surprised that Superstar still isn't open but I guess they need to break all the stuff down so it should be this weekend.

Besides removing all the structures at the base, they have to make or push snow to connect it to the open terrain on Snowdon. Otherwise its a muddy walk over.

Also, recall seeing in numerous places the comment that they have significant work to do to make the snow skiable for the average recreational skier. Not sure if this just means a ton of grooming or whether they have to make "recreational" snow on top of the World Cup boiler plate?

And given the weather this week, they are probably not in hurry, though I would think they want SS open this weekend.

moguler6 · Nov 29, 2016

Great event and a ton of fun to watch. Enjoyed watching this way more than I thought I would and more than all the spinning events I've attended over the years; X-games/gravity games/dew tour etc. Hopefully they come back. Maybe they could consider holding the speed events out west and technical events in the east going forward.

It would also be nice if the US Freestyle Team pays attention to this and rethinks they're World Cup events. I hate how it's Lake Placid and Deer Valley every single year. No one attends the Lake Placid WC and it's in a terrible location. If you want spectators it MUST be at a base area, not half way up a mountain! Canada moves their Freestyle World Cup events around every year.

Smellytele · Nov 29, 2016

slatham said:
Also, recall seeing in numerous places the comment that they have significant work to do to make the snow skiable for the average recreational skier. Not sure if this just means a ton of grooming or whether they have to make "recreational" snow on top of the World Cup boiler plate?

From what I saw it didn't look like the normal boiler plate. Also heard some skier say how soft it was.

Savemeasammy · Nov 29, 2016

moguler6 said:
It would also be nice if the US Freestyle Team pays attention to this and rethinks their World Cup events.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I've never been a big fan of racing gates, but it was actually pretty exciting to see in person. I'd imagine that seeing the pros in a mogul event would be just as fun. They'd never touch the attendance of the WC, but I'd guess you'd get better numbers than Whiteface.

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BenedictGomez · Nov 29, 2016

Savemeasammy said:
I'd imagine that seeing the pros in a mogul event would be just as fun. They'd never touch the attendance of the WC, but I'd guess you'd get better numbers than Whiteface.

I've been to the aerials at Whiteface three times, and the crowds have always been pretty good, even with extreme below 0 cold. Granted aerials & moguls wont draw like downhill, slalom, GS, etc... I dont know why they "lost" the moguls and aerials last year, whether it was an FIS decision or a Whiteface decision, but at least to my mind it seemed to get good local support.

Jully · Nov 29, 2016

BenedictGomez said:
I've been to the aerials at Whiteface three times, and the crowds have always been pretty good, even with extreme below 0 cold. Granted aerials & moguls wont draw like downhill, slalom, GS, etc... I dont know why they "lost" the moguls and aerials last year, whether it was an FIS decision or a Whiteface decision, but at least to my mind it seemed to get good local support.

Agreed, I'd actually prefer to see aerials and moguls if I were to go to a free style event. I might be odd though.

doublediamond · Nov 29, 2016

Smellytele said:
From what I saw it didn't look like the normal boiler plate. Also heard some skier say how soft it was.

Soft to a racer is not soft to us. Yes there was snow spray, but these skiers put a tremendous force when turning. Course workers were falling and sliding. One of the slalom skiers slid like half way down.

doublediamond · Nov 29, 2016

Highway Star said:
Lots of people mimicing the NBC-tier reporting I see. (pull out of ARSE)

The Birds of Prey course, pretty much the USA's flagship DH course, is only 753m.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_Prey_(ski_course)

Yes, a Killington DH wouldn't be the nastiest steepest tech course, but it would certainly be challenging enough for WC and meet the requirements.

I did not realize BoP was only 753. I'm going on a limb here but I have a feeling it is only on the calendar because it was built for the World Championships and immediately became a popular venue for the racers (public knowledge ... they love the challenge of the course).

Here are all the current men's DH courses:

Wengen - 1,028
S. Caterina Valfurva - 945
Garmish - 920
Val D'Isère (ex Ladies) - 895*
Lake Louise - 863
Kitzbühel - 860
Val Gardena - 839
Kvitfjell - 838
Aspen - 762**
Beaver Creek - 753

*I do not know what the old Men's course (Face) was. Its homologation has expired. It is my understanding a lot of it was considered "too steep" for SG/GS races and the GS skiers would routinely struggle down it.

**Note that Aspen is only here on this list because it has the Finals. It is not a normal stop. Excluding it, all other races are 85m taller than BoP.

The proposed Skyeship DH would not be in the same league as BoP difficulty. I highly doubt it'd be acceptable in anyone's mind.

doublediamond · Nov 29, 2016

deadheadskier said:
DD

I could be off, but based upon what I saw on TV and know of Superstar, this seems to be what the approximate length of the course was. I would think a similar comparable length course on Highline would be this length, which would be a bit more consistent in pitch and visible to the spectators top to bottom. It's a lot closer in length looking at a map than what I have in my memory of skiing there.

View attachment 21111

First off, you need about 60m of stopping room past the timing line for a technical event (and much more for a speed event). Then you need another 5-10m for the required press pen. If the fence between the audience and press pen is put at the dirt road, the timing line would have to be at an elevation of at least 785m/2575'. Now we go up 190m in elevation we're at 975m/3198' or higher. That's the pumphouse: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByLmvGMUYJXXanFFVmF4bjRwZUE/view

That isn't even considering the room required for grandstands (might be able to squeeze them in on the sides) and VIP.

The only benefit is you can ski from KBL to Snowshed direct. But you could essentially do that yesterday (unfortunately snowmaking wasn't complete yet on Sunday) via Great Northern, Ramshead lodge, and the tunnel. In any other fall, that snowmaking (and Caper and possibly Snowshed itself) would have been completed for the race.

Finally, both above the knoll and below the knoll of Highline is flatter than Superstar. You *might* be able to see a few % more of the race, but I doubt it. If you want GS, you'd completely truncate the north Ridge from its only intermediate route down. That would be a disaster.

Just because early Killington maps had it as "Highline Race Slope" and the kids race/train there, does not mean it's the best part of the mountain for a race.

from_the_NEK · Nov 29, 2016

Lets face it, short of incorporating the hourglass on the summit of Mt Mansfield, the mountains in Vermont just don't have the topography to make a good World Cup Downhill course (although you can get a 800-820m drop using the summit of Mansfield).

I think the only way you could really pull this off in the East is to have a dedicated course. The course would have to be in the Whites or the Adirondacks. Although, for the latter, most mountainsides that would qualify are extremely isolated.

In the White Mtns I think this one would work...

Off of North Kinsman. Good Vert, decently steep except for a short flat in the middle. Easy access from I-93.

skiur · Nov 29, 2016

andrec10 said:
It is solid ice right now! Most people would need a diaper to ski it in its current shape.

How is it solid ice when it is 45 degrees and raining out right now? Let people on it while it is soft and it will bump up, problem solved.

BenedictGomez · Nov 29, 2016

Wouldn't Whiteface work from the summit?

Jully · Nov 29, 2016

from_the_NEK said:
Lets face it, short of incorporating the hourglass on the summit of Mt Mansfield, the mountains in Vermont just don't have the topography to make a good World Cup Downhill course (although you can get a 800-820m drop using the summit of Mansfield).

I think the only way you could really pull this off in the East is to have a dedicated course. The course would have to be in the Whites or the Adirondacks. Although, for the latter, most mountainsides that would qualify are extremely isolated.

In the White Mtns I think this one would work...

Off of North Kinsman. Good Vert, decently steep except for a short flat in the middle. Easy access from I-93.

Wouldn't it be something if skiing, specifically the world cup could gather the excitement and backing to have a project like this actually proposed? Sadly, the days of building dedicated facilities for skiing/racing are gone. Still nice to dream though!

andrec10 · Nov 29, 2016

skiur said:
How is it solid ice when it is 45 degrees and raining out right now? Let people on it while it is soft and it will bump up, problem solved.

It was solid on Sunday. Past tense...

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from_the_NEK · Nov 29, 2016

Jully said:
Sadly, the days of building dedicated facilities for skiing/racing are gone.

Not in South Korea

Although there was a lot of push back on the construction of the speed event venue.

Jully · Nov 29, 2016

from_the_NEK said:
Not in South Korea
Although there was a lot of push back on the construction of the speed event venue.

I suppose I was thinking in the US. Projects like that were proposed before, like in Maine for the Flagstaff Olympic bid way back when, but longer.

dlague · Nov 29, 2016

Smellytele said:
From what I saw it didn't look like the normal boiler plate. Also heard some skier say how soft it was.

They were talking about how soft it was getting on Saturday and how rutted it was due to poor surface conditions. My guess it rewrote from the softer days and they will resurface and till that run so it bumps up better.

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dlague · Nov 29, 2016

First many trails are not wide enough for DH or Super G. The trails that are are straight and relatively short. There are not too may places where hitting 80+ mph is feasible without concern for your life. Many resorts are clustered in to pods with no constant pitch.

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doublediamond · Nov 29, 2016

DH and SG require 30m (100ft) widths. GS and SL require 40m (130ft) widths.

dlague · Nov 29, 2016

doublediamond said:
DH and SG require 30m (100ft) widths. GS and SL require 40m (130ft) widths.

Funny thought it would be the other way around.

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