Killington - Other ski areas in a death spiral besides Killington?

[WWF-VT]

i remember early 80's thinking of okemo as a place that didn't have a lot of snowmaking & mostly pomas and sunday river was a place they shipped les otten off to, to take it off their hands. but then both areas started building infra-structure and catching up to the mighty beast and many of those advantages dissipated. plus they and areas like mt snow & stratton provided a superior intermediate ski experience so they all took chunks of the k pie.

Those places are where a lot of former K skiers and riders went and they're not coming back

 

[mister moose]

When K was owned by 1 man, it was a lot easier to take risks or say lose money one year for "marketing" sakes?

A Corporate structure of any kind completely will not allow that kind of thinking. Of course the Powder guys in Utah are looking to maximize their proffit that is what they are programmed to do.

Don't think for a minute that Preston Smith

Owned 100% of Killington
Didn't have to be accountable to equity investors and a board of directors.
Wasn't interested in maximizing (long term) profit

This isn't an example of one outfit knowing how to make money and the other not. It is much more about different operational philosophies and absentee ownership.

 

[bigbob]

Jay Peak & Stowe have the advantage of catering to more Canadians than most other New England resorts. The Canadian economy is not in the crapper like the U.S. economy is therefore those areas feel less of an impact. I posted in another thread that last Thurs. night (a weekday) both the Spruce Peak Lodge & Jay Hotel were fully booked. I highly doubt any other area with on mountain lodging could claim that in the east.

Last week Killington had ALOT of candians at the mnt. Heard they came this far south since the northern areas were full,

 

[4aprice]

back in the 80's/early 90's k was the "only" game. you didn't have the instant access to the kind of info you now have, but you knew k opened in october & closed sometimes in june. where were you gonna go for reliable snow mid-season. everything was a superlative - longest season, most snowmaking, most lifts, longest lift, steepest bump trail, longest trail etc. a marketer's dream. i remember early 80's thinking of okemo as a place that didn't have a lot of snowmaking & mostly pomas and sunday river was a place they shipped les otten off to, to take it off their hands. but then both areas started building infra-structure and catching up to the mighty beast and many of those advantages dissipated. plus they and areas like mt snow & stratton provided a superior intermediate ski experience so they all took chunks of the k pie.

This is perhaps the most interesting comment in the thread. Is it because other areas caught up to K or is it because the entire skiing demographic has changed? I ask this because Hunter Mt in NY has seemed to travel along a similar path. Like Killington was in the 80's Hunter used to be quite the party place. They used to open early/ close late. That has all changed as it has at K. Just seems to me that the demographic has changed to the point where its not worth it for these areas.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The profile for "Mac" who posted this complaint about the snowmaking at Okemo lists Killington/Pico as his home mountain on his profile.

Reminds me when awhile back the ASC kmart marketing dept put up a shadow website, something like whyokemosucks.com bashing Okemo. It didn't take long for the world to know who put it up and find themselves with major egg on the face. "Death Spiral"?.......good one.

 

[Highway Star]

Looks like Sunday river has us beat this year....

 

[SkiFanE]

Looks like Sunday river has us beat this year....

I don't think this is a competition. Why they still have more coverage than others is debatable and I don't know how others blew snow. All I know is SR did not stop snowmaking if the weather allowed it. Looking back now, they must have strategically blew snow in places to keep the connectors open and covered all levels of trails.

 

[thetrailboss]

And we have another Killington thread.

 

[x10003q]

This is perhaps the most interesting comment in the thread. Is it because other areas caught up to K or is it because the entire skiing demographic has changed? I ask this because Hunter Mt in NY has seemed to travel along a similar path. Like Killington was in the 80's Hunter used to be quite the party place. They used to open early/ close late. That has all changed as it has at K. Just seems to me that the demographic has changed to the point where its not worth it for these areas.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

I agree with Alex.

Demographics. This is an important part of the decline in skier visits. The huge bulge of single baby boomers that was jamming at Killington (monster skiing and partying) got married, had kids and no longer needed monster skiing and partying and are skiing elsewhere. As mentioned Hunter also somewhat fits this path. Okemo seems to have caught this shift which helped the amazing tranformation at Okemo. On a smaller scale Windham has also benefited.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Looks like Sunday river has US beat this year....

Doesn't sound like somebody leaving anytime soon.

 

[SIKSKIER]

All I know is SR did not stop snowmaking if the weather allowed it.

Word is they will still make snow now if it gets cold enough.Hey all we need now is a 50 degree drop in temperature.

 

[4aprice]

I agree with Alex.

Demographics. This is an important part of the decline in skier visits. The huge bulge of single baby boomers that was jamming at Killington (monster skiing and partying) got married, had kids and no longer needed monster skiing and partying and are skiing elsewhere. As mentioned Hunter also somewhat fits this path. Okemo seems to have caught this shift which helped the amazing tranformation at Okemo. On a smaller scale Windham has also benefited.

Spent alot of time at both Killington and Hunter back in those days. You can see how I spent (or misspent) my youth. Fond memories of both but don't know if we will ever see the sport like that again.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Gilligan]

And we have another Killington thread.

The moderators here fan the flames rather than moderate. Why don't you stop allowing HighwayStar to start threads? That might help.

 

[thetrailboss]

The moderators here fan the flames rather than moderate. Why don't you stop allowing HighwayStar to start threads? That might help.

I respectfully disagree. You do not know what goes on behind the scenes and that several threads have been merged and moderated on this topic.

And I'm sure that we will hear someone claiming that we overmoderate.

If you have genuine concerns please PM us in the future.

 

[x10003q]

Spent alot of time at both Killington and Hunter back in those days. You can see how I spent (or misspent) my youth. Fond memories of both but don't know if we will ever see the sport like that again.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

Me too. Once the kids came along there were different requirements.

 

[drjeff]

Me too. Once the kids came along there were different requirements.

Anyone else notice that most of the folks complaining about K either are young enough that they haven't had kids yet or never had kids??

The whole kid thing as cliche as it sounds REALLY does change one's perspective on things

 

[180]

Me too. Once the kids came along there were different requirements.

Let me say that Hunter is very kid friendly. There are hundreds of kids running around the lodge all the time.

 

[x10003q]

Let me say that Hunter is very kid friendly. There are hundreds of kids running around the lodge all the time.

Hunter is kid friendly once your kids can handle trails besides Belt. Riding the low slow quads can be brutal.

I ended up mostly skiing at Gore (vs Killington). It is easier to get to, there is zero crowding, and it used to be way cheaper. Until recently all the trails ended at one base area.

 

[Gilligan]

I respectfully disagree. You do not know what goes on behind the scenes and that several threads have been merged and moderated on this topic.

And I'm sure that we will hear someone claiming that we overmoderate.

If you have genuine concerns please PM us in the future.

No thank you, this is something your whole forum should read.

While it is true that I do not know what goes on behind the scenes, I have noticed many of HighwayStar's threads getting merged. That only confuses the issue and makes things worse. In my opinion, eliminating his threads and posts would bring the Killington debate back to a normal level. i.e., not much different than some other mountains in the East. How you manage to keep Killington as a sponsor while letting HighwayStar continue his escalating attacks is beyond me.

It is as though you enjoy having him around just so he can continue to give all Killington skiers a bad reputation.

 

[deadheadskier]

No thank you, this is something your whole forum should read.

While it is true that I do not know what goes on behind the scenes, I have noticed many of HighwayStar's threads getting merged. That only confuses the issue and makes things worse. In my opinion, eliminating his threads and posts would bring the Killington debate back to a normal level. i.e., not much different than some other mountains in the East. How you manage to keep Killington as a sponsor while letting HighwayStar continue his escalating attacks is beyond me.

It is as though you enjoy having him around just so he can continue to give all Killington skiers a bad reputation.

......seriously????