Killington/POWDR - how much does bad PR cost them per year in lost revenue?

[WWF-VT]

Does anyone know if Killington is relatively more dependent on lift ticket/pass sales than other major NE areas due to the access road and ski house culture?

I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis of how much revenue Killington loses by branding itself "The Beast", the access road and its Jersey Shore North reputation.

 

[ScottySkis]

I want my two dollars!

Great movie. +1

 

[ScottySkis]

Not much only ski fourm people really care, my cousin who is a typical Killington skiier skis a few times in season really cares that they get snow and have best ski with in certain distance for 2 day weekend, and that is were they will always have customers.

 

[Geoff]

Does anyone know if Killington is relatively more dependent on lift ticket/pass sales than other major NE areas due to the access road and ski house culture?

All drive-to ski areas have lift ticket sales as their dominant source of income. You try to increase your yield with food & beverage, rentals, lessons, a captive ski shop, and your lodging bureau on your web site and 800 number.

The biggest difference at Killington is that the real estate development company that owns the land (H.L. Hunt Texas oil money in Eiger Fund/E2M) is totally separate from the ski operation company (John Cumming/Park City/POWDR). All POWDR cares about is short-term operating profit. Offering a product that will convince rich people to buy slopeside trophy homes doesn't particularly matter to them.

 

[Highway Star]

Just throwing my opinions out there. . .

Your "provided talking points" reference the last few low budget years of ASC when they were offering a $350 blackout pass. There was a reduction in service and the pass price reflected that, but people still complained. POWDR has kept the same reduced services and increased the prices................seriously? We were actually better off under ASC solely due to the reduced prices.

 

[snowmonster]

I seem to recall the griping about ASC and how K people were so relieved to see them gone. Those were the days when this board had a lot of references to the phrase "eat what you kill." Now, people are looking back at the good old days of ASC. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.

For my part, I can never understand why K skiers dump on their mountain and its management on a regular basis. Unless you are tied to the mountain because you made an investment, the obvious solution is to ski some other place if you hate K so much. From what I can observe among the VT resorts, the Bush, Jay, Magic, MRG and Stowe seem to be doing right by their respective client bases. Why not go there? Arguing from a "it was much better then" perspective won't really cut it. The days of Pres Smith and skiing 'til July are over and they're probably never coming back.

I used to ski K in the ASC days. In fact, it was the closest I had to a home mountain. When ASC broke up, I chose to ski Sunday River partly because of the positive vibe among the patrons and the fact that management seemed to listen to us. Never regretted that decision. I sometimes get the urge to ski K on my blackout days and see the old stomping grounds. But, since all I hear from patrons is how much of a dump that place is now and how it's so lousily run, I've decided to steer clear. After all, if the natives are so restless, something must be amiss. Why share in the misery?

 

[oakapple]

For my part, I can never understand why K skiers dump on their mountain and its management on a regular basis. Unless you are tied to the mountain because you made an investment, the obvious solution is to ski some other place if you hate K so much.

The Killington haters are caught between two conflicting positions. On the one hand, despite its flaws, it's still their best option. On the other, they see how much better it could be, and in the past, has been.

I don't really see any contradiction there. It is entirely rational to hate what POWDR is doing, while at the same time, not hating it quite enough to take their business elsewhere.

 

[ALLSKIING]

I spent more money at K this year then the last two years.

 

[HowieT2]

two observations from a non-K skier.
first, as I drive through route 4, it appears the local businesses, particularly lodging, have taken a major hit in the last few years.

second, in listening to the radio in the car on my commute, I hear Kton commercials which perplex me. They start off with a deep somewhat intimidating voice intoning "The Beast" and then they talk about family friendly atmosphere and their kids programs. seems to me these are competing messages. if you're trying to attract families with little kids, don't brand yourself, the Beast. On the other hand, consumers drawn to the beast, probably don't want a mtn full of kids/families.

 

[Gilligan]

two observations from a non-K skier.
first, as I drive through route 4, it appears the local businesses, particularly lodging, have taken a major hit in the last few years.

second, in listening to the radio in the car on my commute, I hear Kton commercials which perplex me. They start off with a deep somewhat intimidating voice intoning "The Beast" and then they talk about family friendly atmosphere and their kids programs. seems to me these are competing messages. if you're trying to attract families with little kids, don't brand yourself, the Beast. On the other hand, consumers drawn to the beast, probably don't want a mtn full of kids/families.

Yes, reminds me of Nissan killing their car sales with those commercials with the creepy old guy a few years ago.

 

[Ski the Moguls]

The Killington haters are caught between two conflicting positions. On the one hand, despite its flaws, it's still their best option. On the other, they see how much better it could be, and in the past, has been.

I don't really see any contradiction there. It is entirely rational to hate what POWDR is doing, while at the same time, not hating it quite enough to take their business elsewhere.

People keep talking about Sugarbush, or Jay, or Sunday River - but those are not weekend options to anyone near NYC. And Killington still blows away the Strattons and Okemos for anyone wanting real expert terrain.

We love Killington, we just do not like how the current owners are acting. If we did not love Killington, we would not care so much.

 

[skiadikt]

The Killington haters are caught between two conflicting positions. On the one hand, despite its flaws, it's still their best option. On the other, they see how much better it could be, and in the past, has been.

I don't really see any contradiction there. It is entirely rational to hate what POWDR is doing, while at the same time, not hating it quite enough to take their business elsewhere.

astute comment. for now due to our current living/real estate situation we're at k. when we retire in another year or two, we'll be free agents and can choose. of course that could mean saying good-bye to our best friends who we've been skiing with for 25 yrs. it's not an simple decision. it's easy for the knee-jerks to say take your business elsewhere ...

again i ask, tell me what other ski area (if any) has made as many negative impacting decisions to their customers and cut back services as much as powdr has at k in the last 5 yrs. the answer is none. in fact i don't hear much in the way of any cutbacks at other areas. it's certainly powdr's right to do whatever they need to max their bottom line but as long as they keep rankling long term customers, there will be bitching until they've chased us all away.

 

[HowieT2]

People keep talking about Sugarbush, or Jay, or Sunday River - but those are not weekend options to anyone near NYC. And Killington still blows away the Strattons and Okemos for anyone wanting real expert terrain.

We love Killington, we just do not like how the current owners are acting. If we did not love Killington, we would not care so much.

I live near NYC and disagree about sugarbush. the additional 45 minutes in the car is no biggie for us. But I can see where you're coming from. That being said, anything south of killington is a non-starter for me.

 

[SkiFanE]

two observations from a non-K skier.
first, as I drive through route 4, it appears the local businesses, particularly lodging, have taken a major hit in the last few years.

I think that has alot to do with the economy. IMO, SundayRiver has done great since ASC, as far as services and value etc...the place has so much more vibe and pride (or something) since Boyne took over. BUT...businesses are hurting all around SR...and based on the "Internet forum whining" meter, SR and K are opposites but local SR businesses are still hurting.

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah, local businesses got killed by the economy for sure.

The ski areas themselves came out ok I think, people still went skiing (clearly, with impressive skier totals annually across the board). But the B&B's, restaurants, etc all came out on the losing end as those splurges got axed primarily.

To be honest, a lot of places kinda got lazy as the 200's rolled through and everyone felt rich. I was a landscaping foreman throughout it all, and you could tell people were throwing money around and tapping their homes for a couple hundred grand to finance it all. They were the first to go when the economy tanked. The wealthy ones, note the difference from rich, still spent, as they really had the money all along. More on point, how many crappy overpriced burgers have you ate in a ski town? Id be willing to suggest that since the recession, the weaker purveyors shut down, and the ones still around either improved or had their act together to begin with. I know Ive noticed a pretty dramatic increase, even the on mountain food seems to have gone up from the cafeteria garbage most used to serve.

 

[oakapple]

I ask, tell me what other ski area (if any) has made as many negative impacting decisions to their customers and cut back services as much as powdr has at k in the last 5 yrs. the answer is none.

I can't think of any. The only ski areas that have cut more are the ones on NELSAP.

 

[Highway Star]

I can't think of any. The only ski areas that have cut more are the ones on NELSAP.

Can you give us an example? Thanks!!

 

[2knees]

killington is probably going to make a shitload of cash in april. they'll be one of the only places left standing in a week. Ironic considering all the uproar about closing this and cutting that. (many of which may be valid complaints)

seriously, who's gonna survive this week and next.

k
stowe
jay
sugarbush.

beyond that there wont be anyone left in vermont. okemo's at 1000 feet at the base. that's gonna be toast. mt snow is so far south and hasnt gotten any natty this year, goner. bromley facing south??? forget about it. maybe stratton makes it to april 1st but i doubt any longer then that.

 

[Highway Star]

killington is probably going to make a shitload of cash in april. they'll be one of the only places left standing in a week. Ironic considering all the uproar about closing this and cutting that. (many of which may be valid complaints)

seriously, who's gonna survive this week and next.

k
stowe
jay
sugarbush.

beyond that there wont be anyone left in vermont. okemo's at 1000 feet at the base. that's gonna be toast. mt snow is so far south and hasnt gotten any natty this year, goner. bromley facing south??? forget about it. maybe stratton makes it to april 1st but i doubt any longer then that.

Well, perhaps that will be a good thing for them and will finally demonstrate to the new management that if they are (one of) the only ones open, they will get business. In May.

 

[WWF-VT]

killington is probably going to make a shitload of cash in april. they'll be one of the only places left standing in a week. Ironic considering all the uproar about closing this and cutting that. (many of which may be valid complaints)

seriously, who's gonna survive this week and next.

k
stowe
jay
sugarbush.

beyond that there wont be anyone left in vermont. okemo's at 1000 feet at the base. that's gonna be toast. mt snow is so far south and hasnt gotten any natty this year, goner. bromley facing south??? forget about it. maybe stratton makes it to april 1st but i doubt any longer then that.

Unfortunately the suck weather this season will result in most of your occasional skiers ending any thoughts of skiing by the end of March instead of the end of April. There will be marginal additional dollars spent at Killington or anywhere else in April. Do you really think that Killington will get many people from Okemo, Mt Snow , Bromley or Stratton ? If I’m a Stowe, Jay or Sugarbush pass holder or regular I’m going to stay as far north as possible as the season winds down