Men are Predators

[billski]

Speaking of paranoid.... Get your hands on the recent Wall St. journal article about how men, especially single, but actually all, are perceived as predatory threats in the American Culture. Men as a group have recoiled, and have retracted from helping children they are unaquainted with. Think about it. Last time you saw a kid fall or perhaps crash while skiing. Did you rush right over to help them? (I'm not talking about ski patrollers!) or did you sit back and wait to see who would approach?

So you run over to help, and people are glaring at you, and you feel like some evil schmuck. It's sad that our society has let itself become so insular and un-trusting.
I remember once coming on a kid at a parade who was separated from his mother. He was shrieking, sobbing and trembling, standing alone. I went over to try to calm him down. I wanted to put my hand on his head or shoulder; It seemed so lame to just stare at him and say comforting words. But I dared not touch him fearing I'd be down at the police station shortly if I did. It seemed like eternity until his mother appeared.

Evil exists for sure, but it's the exception, not the rule. Over-protectors seem to forget this.

Fear of Men Is Driving the Good Guys Away
September 14, 2007; Page A11

Jeffrey Zaslow's "Moving On" column "Avoiding Kids: How Men Cope With Being Cast as Predators" (Personal Journal, Sept. 6) confirmed that foolish prejudice and hysteria have combined to demonize men in our culture, with the result that men themselves feel less able to help others, for fear of being unfairly cast as predators. It is a terrible thing to see honorable, courageous and virtuous men being suspected of unspeakable wrongs merely on the basis of their gender. It is worse yet to consider how these fears and suspicions prevent men from serving as a force for good, as mentors, volunteers, teachers, etc., because of the concern that a simple misunderstanding could end their career or ruin lives. And worst of all is looking at the innocent hope and enthusiasm with which young boys throw themselves into life, knowing that it will only be a matter of years before they pass from overprotected potential victims to shunned potential predators.
As the director of Boys and Schools, an organization dedicated to helping improve boys' health, education and well-being, I see again and again the evidence that strong, positive male role models are a vital part of helping young men succeed. And yet, we are pushing these very role models out of boys' lives where they are most needed and teaching both boys and men that there's something "wrong" with them. How can we help boys do better in an atmosphere defined by fear and distrust of men?
Malia Blom
Director
Boys and Schools
A Project of the Men's Health Network
Washington

 

[riverc0il]

I would like to see some hard research on this. Personally, this looks like mere opinion rather than researched based fact. I know no such stigma of being "demonized" if trying to help someone else. People in general (men and women) are disconnecting from society. I find it hard to believe men (consciously or unconsciously) are disconnecting from helping positions out of fear of other people suspecting them as predators.

 

[Marc]

I never really liked kids to begin with. This gives me a convenient excuse to avoid them.

 

[ann in ma]

While certainly anecdotal, those fears and views are out there.
I'm female. A close friend of mine (also female) hires childcare providers for our local YMCA to watch children in the play area while their parents are exercising. She called to ask my opinion: she had a very qualified 19 year old male who wanted the job. Would I, as a parent, be uncomfortable leaving my children with a male? It had been a point of discussion, and I believe she ended up hiring him, but just that fact that it was brought up at all says something.

In addition, one of the "stranger danger" safety rules that are taught to children today: if you are lost or in trouble, in a mall for instance, find a woman. The stated reason is that women tend to be more nuturing and are likely to help more, but the unspoken message is there as well.

As the wife of a man who loves children (and they love him) and who helps out whenever he can, it is something we've discussed. My DH would still help if a child needed it ... but I know that fear of being misjudged would be in the back of his mind.

 

[ctenidae]

When I was single my favorite Halloween costume was the most hated and feared thing in America- Single, white, educated male. Now I go as a married with no children white educated male. Marginally less scary, but no less unwanted by the politicos.

 

[severine]

Intentional or not, I do believe that stigma is there. Then again, I don't trust men I don't know at all anyway, regardless of whether children are involved or not. You can just never be too safe and I keep a healthy "fear" of anyone who could easily overpower me. I know these should be exceptions to the rule, but it's just not the world it used to be. That said, I would hope that my DH would help a child in need without fear of this stereotype, as well as a woman in need. There just aren't enough openly good people in the world anymore either.

 

[bvibert]

It's definitely something I've thought of, on both sides of the fence. With all the stories you hear in the news it's hard not to be super cautious with who's around your kids...

I don't know if I agree with the 'seek out a woman' advice for lost kids though. It seems like you hear of just as many abductions where a woman lures the kid in...

 

[bvibert]

That said, I would hope that my DH would help a child in need without fear of this stereotype, as well as a woman in need. There just aren't enough openly good people in the world anymore either.

Yes, I would still help someone in need if I could, but I'd be careful not to do anything that could be misconstrued by on-lookers and/or parents.

 

[billski]

facts

I would like to see some hard research on this. Personally, this looks like mere opinion rather than researched based fact. I know no such stigma of being "demonized" if trying to help someone else. People in general (men and women) are disconnecting from society. I find it hard to believe men (consciously or unconsciously) are disconnecting from helping positions out of fear of other people suspecting them as predators.

The snippet I posted was from op-ed, which of course was opinion. Follow the link and the facts are in the original story.

Avoiding Kids: How Men Cope
With Being Cast as Predators
September 6, 2007; Page D1

These days, if Rian Romoli accidentally bumps into a child, he quickly raises his hands above his shoulders. "I don't want to give even the slightest indication that any inadvertent touching occurred," says Mr. Romoli, an economist in La Cañada Flintridge, Calif.
Ted Wallis, a doctor in Austin, Texas, recently came upon a lost child in tears in a mall. His first instinct was to help, but he feared people might consider him a predator. He walked away. "Being male," he explains, "I am guilty until proven innocent."
In San Diego, retiree Ralph Castro says he won't allow himself to be alone with a child -- even in an elevator.
Last month, I wrote about how our culture teaches children to fear men. Hundreds of men responded, many lamenting that they've now become fearful of children. They said they avert their eyes when kids are around, or think twice before holding even their own children's hands in public.
DISCUSSION

Men, do you find yourself limiting contact with kids for fear that you'll be accused of being a predator? Is there anything that can be done about this societal problem? Share your thoughts.

Frank McEnulty, a builder in Long Beach, Calif., was once a Boy Scout scoutmaster. "Today, I wouldn't do that job for anything," he says. "All it takes is for one kid to get ticked off at you for something and tell his parents you were acting weird on the campout."
It's true that men are far more likely than women to be sexual predators. But our society, while declining to profile by race or nationality when it comes to crime and terrorism, has become nonchalant about profiling men. Child advocates are advising parents never to hire male babysitters. Airlines are placing unaccompanied minors with female passengers.
Child-welfare groups say these precautions minimize risks. But men's rights activists argue that our societal focus on "bad guys" has led to an overconfidence in women. (Children who die of physical abuse are more often victims of female perpetrators, usually mothers, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.)
Though groups that cater to the young are working harder to identify predators, they also ask that risks be kept in perspective. Big Brothers Big Sisters of America does criminal background checks on each of its 250,000 volunteers, and has social workers assess them. Since 1990, the group says, it has had fewer than 10 abuse allegations per year. More than 98% of the alleged abusers were male.
"If we wanted to make sure we never had a problem, one approach would be to just become Big Sisters -- to say we won't serve boys," says Mack Koonce, the group's chief operating officer. But, of course, that would deny hundreds of thousands of boys contact with male mentors.
The Boy Scouts of America now has elaborate rules to prevent both abuse and false accusations. There are 1.2 million Scout leaders, and the organization kicks out about 175 of them a year over abuse allegations or for violating policies.

These policies can be intricate. For instance, four adult leaders are needed for each outing. If a sick child must go home, two adults drive him and two stay with the others, so no adult is ever alone with a Scout. "It's protection for the adults, as well as the children," says a Scouts spokesman.
The result of all this hyper-carefulness, however, is that men often feel like untouchables. In Cochranville, Pa., Ray Simpson, a bus driver, says that he used to have 30 kids stop at his house on Halloween. But after his divorce, with people knowing he was a man living alone, he had zero visitors. "I felt like crying at the end of the evening," he says.
At Houston Intercontinental Airport, businessman Mitch Reifel was having a meal with his 5-year-old daughter when a policeman showed up to question him. A passerby had reported his interactions with the child seemed "suspicious."
In Skokie, Ill., Steve Frederick says the director of his son's day-care center called him in to reprimand him for "inappropriately touching the children." "I was shocked," he says. "Whatever did she mean?" She was referring to him reading stories with his son and other kids on his lap. A parent had panicked when her child mentioned sitting on a man's lap.
"Good parenting and good education demand that we let children take risks," says Mr. Frederick, a career coach. "We install playground equipment, putting them at risk of falls and broken bones. Why? We want them to challenge themselves and develop muscles and confidence.
"Likewise, while we don't want sexual predators to harm our kids, we do want our kids to develop healthy relationships with adults, both men and women. Instilling a fear of men is a profound disservice to everyone."


---
Are We Teaching Our Kids
To Be Fearful of Men?
August 23, 2007; Page D1

When children get lost in a mall, they're supposed to find a "low-risk adult" to help them. Guidelines issued by police departments and child-safety groups often encourage them to look for "a pregnant woman," "a mother pushing a stroller" or "a grandmother."
The implied message: Men, even dads pushing strollers, are "high-risk."
Are we teaching children that men are out to hurt them? The answer, on many fronts, is yes. Child advocate John Walsh advises parents to never hire a male babysitter. Airlines are placing unaccompanied minors with female passengers rather than male passengers. Soccer leagues are telling male coaches not to touch players.

A Virginia public-service ad that angered fathers'-rights groups. Child-welfare groups say these are necessary precautions, given that most predators are male. But fathers' rights activists and educators now argue that an inflated predator panic is damaging men's relationships with kids. Some men are opting not to get involved with children at all, which partly explains why many youth groups can't find male leaders, and why just 9% of elementary-school teachers are male, down from 18% in 1981.
People assume that all men "have the potential for violence and sexual aggressiveness," says Peter Stearns, a George Mason University professor who studies fear and anxiety. Kids end up viewing every male stranger "as a potential evildoer," he says, and as a byproduct, "there's an overconfidence in female virtues."
In Michigan, the North Macomb Soccer Club has a policy that at least one female parent must always sit on the sidelines, to guard against any untoward behavior by male coaches. In Churchville, Pa., soccer coach Barry Pflueger says young girls often want a hug after scoring a goal, but he refrains. Even when girls are injured, "you must comfort them without touching them, a very difficult thing to do," he says. "It saddens me that this is what we've come to."
TV shows, including the Dateline NBC series "To Catch a Predator," hype stories about male abusers. Now social-service agencies are also using controversial tactics to spread the word about abuse. This summer, Virginia's Department of Health mounted an ad campaign for its sex-abuse hotline. Billboards featured photos of a man holding a child's hand. The caption: "It doesn't feel right when I see them together."
More than 200 men emailed complaints about the campaign to the health department. "The implication is that if you see a man holding a girl's hand, he's probably a predator," says Marc Rudov, who runs the fathers' rights site TheNoNonsenseMan.com. "In other words, if you see a father out with his daughter, call the police."
Virginia's campaign was designed to encourage people to trust their instincts about possible abuse, says Rebecca Odor, director of sexual and domestic violence prevention for the state health department. She stands by the ads, pointing out that 89% of child sex-abuse perpetrators in Virginia are male.
Mr. Walsh, host of Fox's "America's Most Wanted," began advocating for missing children in 1981, after his son was killed by a stranger. He knows some men are offended by his advice to never hire a male babysitter. But as he sees it, if a teenage boy wants to experiment with sex, you don't want him using your kids.
"It's not a witch hunt," he says. "It's all about minimizing risks. What dog is more likely to bite and hurt you? A Doberman, not a poodle. Who's more likely to molest a child? A male."
Airlines use similar reasoning when they seat unaccompanied minors only with women. They are trying to decrease the odds of a problem. Certainly, many men would be safe seatmates for kids, but sometimes, especially on overnight flights in darkened cabins, "you have to make generalizations for the safety of a child," says Diana Fairechild, an expert witness in aviation disputes. Airlines have had decades of experience monitoring the gender of abusive seatmates, she adds, quoting a line repeated in airline circles: "No regulation in aviation takes effect without somebody's blood on it."
Most men understand the need to be cautious, so they're willing to take a step back from children, or to change seats on a plane. One abused child is one too many. Still, it's important to maintain perspective. "The number of men who will hurt a child is tiny compared to the population," says Benjamin Radford, who researches statistics on predators and is managing editor of the science magazine Skeptical Inquirer. "Virtually all of the time, if a child is lost or in trouble, he will be safe going to the nearest male stranger."
• Email: Jeffrey.Zaslow@wsj.com.

 

[riverc0il]

Are men viewed as potentially more violent and predator like? Yes, absolutely. It is well known fact that young men in specific and men in general are more prone to commit violent or predatory acts. I think we need stay on topic with this on the issue if men are less likely to commit acts of altruism because society views men as the less caring and more violent sex of the species. I just have a hard time believing someone that consciously thinks "yes, I am going to do an unselfish and altruistic act" decides not to because they consider that they may be viewed as a predator for doing so. I just have a hard time believing that someone might "think better" and decide not to follow through on their instincts because of such a stigma. That is the issue here, not whether or not there is a stigma (there is, and justly so based on statistics of who commits violent crime--women are on the rise in that catagory, fwiw).

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

When I was single my favorite Halloween costume was the most hated and feared thing in America- Single, white, educated male. Now I go as a married with no children white educated male. Marginally less scary, but no less unwanted by the politicos.

I'm single white male and educated..even though I'm too lazy to use commas right now..I don't feel hated...most strangers adult/children are uber friendly to me. Those To Catch a Predator Pedaphiles are a tiny tiny percentage of the adult male population..the other 99.something percent of men shouldn't be looked at poorly because of them.

 

[billski]

Are men viewed as potentially more violent and predator like? Yes, absolutely. It is well known fact that young men in specific and men in general are more prone to commit violent or predatory acts. I think we need stay on topic with this on the issue if men are less likely to commit acts of altruism because society views men as the less caring and more violent sex of the species. I just have a hard time believing someone that consciously thinks "yes, I am going to do an unselfish and altruistic act" decides not to because they consider that they may be viewed as a predator for doing so. I just have a hard time believing that someone might "think better" and decide not to follow through on their instincts because of such a stigma. That is the issue here, not whether or not there is a stigma (there is, and justly so based on statistics of who commits violent crime--women are on the rise in that catagory, fwiw).

Steve,
I have kids ranging from elementary through high school. I encounter these situations all the time, at least a couple times a week. I am here to testify that yes, myself and many other dads I know think twice about altruistic acts. From where I sit, to who I am in the company of and where. I have met too many adults who are quick to accuse, I've gotten too many evil eyes, cold shoulders, comments, and it goes on.

It's not just altruistic, it's situational too. Never would I be caught dead in a room alone with another girl, for example. The last thing I need is to have a cop come by for a visit because someone thought it didn't look right.

And when my daughter and I went to Canada, I made sure I had a note from my wife expressing her awareness and giving me permission to take her about. I was asked for the paper by the border guards on both sides. When my wife traveled with our daughter north, she had a paper, but was never asked.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

You have to have a note to travel to Canada with your own kid..that's
F-ucked up..

 

[riverc0il]

You have to have a note to travel to Canada with your own kid..that's
F-ucked up..

Actually, I can fully understand that and remember reading that it is important to do so. I believe Patrick has had to do this occasionally, IIRC. Certainly a good idea to ensure nothing weird is going on. I just hope they warn people before they leave the country that they might need a note to come back in or vice versa!

 

[Marc]

I fail to see how a note is going to prevent anything... are people going to have to get these things notarized or what?

I'm all for protecting kids, but there's a line to be drawn between a rational precaution and emotional panic.

 

[billski]

Actually, I can fully understand that and remember reading that it is important to do so. I believe Patrick has had to do this occasionally, IIRC. Certainly a good idea to ensure nothing weird is going on. I just hope they warn people before they leave the country that they might need a note to come back in or vice versa!

You are not warned. Ever.

Don't you recognize me? I'm a mother raper, father stabber, father raper, mother stabber, child abductor. Hmmm. Funny, you look like one too. Actually this entire load of males on this forum looks like one too. I'd better keep my mother and father, may they rest in peace, stay away from you threatening looking beasts!:-o That ski slope is looking scarier every minute. Maybe I'd better get more deadbolts and leave my car idling in the pickup lane so I can get away fast.
I'll have my private security force with me too.

Are we paranoid yet????

 

[billski]

Sad.

I fail to see how a note is going to prevent anything... are people going to have to get these things notarized or what?

I'm all for protecting kids, but there's a line to be drawn between a rational precaution and emotional panic.

You damn well better get it notarized. We had to. Whether it's effective or not is certainly debatable.

It's a whole different world once you have kids. Sad.

 

[Marc]

You damn well better get it notarized. We had to. Whether it's effective or not is certainly debatable.

It's a whole different world once you have kids. Sad.

Well, it was more sarcasm than anything. Did you need to present birth certificates or photo ID's for you and your daughter and your wife to the Notary Public and all be there in person?

 

[Mike P.]

It's not just a male thing, it's an adult thing. My wife is a teacher in a rural school district in a poorer town in CT (There are a few) Several times she has come home telling me about kids who have had parents die or just leave, siblings in trouble with the law, etc. & as much as you'd like to give the kid a hug, you can't

(On another note in the opposite direction, I had a gym teacher that would usually make an example of the class trouble maker by giving him a pressure point. The kid was behaing badly, while we could argue the punishment, the one thing the rest of us did (who thought the trouble maker was cool BTW) do was to behave, we didn't want the same treatment. Same thing the bad kid who cot pinned against the locker by a Vice principal of Football Coach, etc. 99% of us who saw it or heard it embellished learned not to misbehave. (For all we know, the whole thing could have been scripted for our benefit)

With kids in the mall, you need to get down with them so they have a friendly face at their level, all they see is a big place & adults who are not their Mommy or Daddy. If you can, try & get them to a store & ask a clerk to help you watch them or for them to call security. You want help so you have a witness with you, it's sad you can't walk around the mall trying to find their parents but you can still help.

Distrust, heck even male denists & Dr.s are not supposed to be left alone with female patients if under anesthesia or disrobing, of course if you're a pervert who does that sort of thing, you wouldn't work for an accounting firm or in Insurance. In 25 years in the insurance business I haven't seen a naked women yet at work.

I understand Sr. Citizens need help & they will stil call you sonny & young man instead of sir! (just don't sell them replacement windows or Life Insurance)

Did pedophilles exist before, likely but the stories were not accessible 24/7 on the www or on Cable News, I think this is all Nancy Grace talks about if there is a break in the Britney, Lindsay, Paris lunacy. Sadly pedophilles want to be near children, they don't work in Sr. Centers or the IRS

 

[Paul]

Well, it was more sarcasm than anything. Did you need to present birth certificates or photo ID's for you and your daughter and your wife to the Notary Public and all be there in person?

We just got new passports last month as we are heading to Mexico in April. Despite the fact that my wife, daughter and I all have passports already (we need new ones, they are expiring) My wife and I BOTH had to be present and have my daughter's Birth Cert AND Social Security card (you need 2 forms of ID even if the child is 7) and her existing passport counted as the requisite photo ID.

I was waiting for them to ask for the DNA test on the three of us....y'know....just in case....