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The cyber-civility thread

legalskier

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With all the interest about what is/is not acceptable online behavior, perhaps it's a good time to start a thread like this. A blogger summed it up well: "The topic of civility on the internet has gotten a lot of ink recently. People flame each other online in ways they would never do in a public meeting. And this tendency is most extreme in anonymous postings on blogs and web sites. What is it about anonymity that sometimes brings out the worst in people? Fundamentally it is the separation between speech and accountability that sometimes poisons anonymous speech. Plato speculated about the Ring of Gyges in the Republic: how would people behave if their actions were entirely untraceable?.... And, by the evidence, there are a fair number of people who will take the cloak of anonymity as permission to express outrageous, harmful, and fundamentally disrespectful things to and about others."

She notes that this is nothing new; e.g. in the 1700s the Black Act banned "going about in a mask and conveying anonymous, often threatening, letters," usually as a tool of coercion. On the other hand, anonymous communications have been used as "a way for powerless people and groups to express and advocate their claims without repression...constraining the power and behavior of the high and mighty." Jurgen Habermas' ideas about the public sphere as a place for open and civil debate encourages publicity as "an essential component of a democratic polity: people engage with each other in a public space, and they embody an ethic of mutual respect that permits profound disagreements to occur without the collapse of civility." (http://changingsocietyblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/anonymity-and-civility.html)

Except that civility sometimes breaks down. That's where this thread comes in. Do you think the current system of free-wheeling anonymous forums is acceptable? Should there be any constraints on it? Do you prefer the anything goes TGR model or the self-policing AZ model? Do you know of any examples of bad, or good, cyber-behavior elsewhere than AZ? How anonymous should posters be? Instead of touching on the subject in the context of other snowsports threads, this thread can focus on it exclusively.
 

legalskier

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Subpoenas for posters' identities

Here is a situation that involves a school superintendent who reportedly insisted that people address him as "doctor." The state discovered he had obtained his doctoral degree from an unaccredited online school, which boosted his salary, and advised him to cease, but it did not reduce his salary to the prior level (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/07/nj_reviews_degrees_held_by_fre.html). A number of people posted anonymous criticisms of him on an online forum. Now it's reported that subpoenas have been issued for the personal identities of the critics. Should they get the identities? Should the critics try to quash the subpoenas? Being that they posted on a "news" website, should they be protected derivatively through the newsperson's status? Should they reach out for the ACLU? Being that we are all "posters," this case ought to be of interest to all....


Freehold Regional school district wants name of Web site users
By ALESHA WILLIAMS BOYD • STAFF WRITER • October 15, 2009

ENGLISHTOWN — Freehold Regional High School District school board has subpoenaed a news organization's Web site for the names of people who have criticized the district leadership in postings. According to the subpoena, the district wants to identify forum posters before the board in a disciplinary hearing -- an indicator officials are hunting for district employees.The board is demanding the full name, address and e-mail addresses registered for about 20 user names on the site, New Jersey Online, nj.com. Listed user names have criticized Schools Superintendent H. James Wasser's obtaining a doctoral degree from an unaccredited online school. The degree had meant the district paid tuition and a $2,500 annual stipend to the superintendent. Some posts also include unconfirmed allegations about Wasser and district officials. Howell representative William Bruno on the school board said he was in favor of the Aug. 31 subpoena. "If they have nothing to hide, what's the problem?'' Bruno said. But residents say this is the last in a line of attempts to intimidate and silence residents, including one residents' claim he was assaulted by a district security guard and the board's refusal to officially extend public speaker time limits from three minutes to five at meetings. "(District officials) rule by fear and terror and this is part of it,'' said Jim Sage of Marlboro, a frequent critic of the board. "If it's true (a subpoena has been filed) I think this is a waste of taxpayers' money yet again. Is it an attempt to silence the critics? Absolutely.''


http://www.app.com/article/20091015/NEWS/91015064/1001/rss
 

billski

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I am an advocate for full disclosure. Your user name is your real, verified name. The Wall Street Journal insists upon it. The level of civility is high and the trashy comments are nigh. Then again, are we writing a letter to the editor, or is this an experiment in social media. How many times do you go into a social setting and only give your first name? You chat with a dozen or three people, discourse ensues and you go home, veritably traceless. The only difference is that civility does reign, even in pseudo-anonymous social settings.

I agree with the black-mask syndrome; we lose our inhibitions and let our primal forces loose. This group, being rather stable, has a fairly steady level of civility. Over time our identities are easily known, even if we never meet in person.

I have no proof, but I suspect that the TGR group attracts a very young demographic, who are experimenting and learning about how to get along with people in life. With anarchistic tendencies, the more mature are sent packing, leaving the group no balance at all. As in life, there are social circles of various levels of maturity. I'm sure you've heard the group of teens who can't complete a sentence without two or three vulgarities inserted? Then there are other more serious minded teens too. Do we censor the more vulgar group? Of course not, we just don't socialize with them.

If this group was to degenerate into a TGR-like discourse, I'd be gone in a NY Minute. We pick the groups that are attractive to us, and I have no problem with that. The challenge is that it is much easier for the "wrong" person to join the "wrong" group, which is why moderation is so important.

I run a research discussion forum where we keep focused on the research topic. Personal attacks are grounds for immediate removal. But that's because we've kept the scope of the group focused, which is critical to success. Stick to you mission and don't be distracted.
 

Greg

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I have been purposely un-anonymous since day one here. I've also met probably over 100 AZers in the past several years. What you see here is what you get, like it or not. Yeah, I've probably said some stupid things over the years, but overall, I don't have any regrets. I like knowing that nothing I've ever posted will ever come back to haunt me, and hopefully most people don't think I'm a douchebag prior to meeting me in person based on what I've posted online. Some might, but hey, I can't please everyone... :lol: ;)
 

Grassi21

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I have been purposely un-anonymous since day one here. I've also met probably over 100 AZers in the past several years. What you see here is what you get, like it or not. Yeah, I've probably said some stupid things over the years, but overall, I don't have any regrets. I like knowing that nothing I've ever posted will ever come back to haunt me, and hopefully most people don't think I'm a douchebag prior to meeting me in person based on what I've posted online. Some might, but hey, I can't please everyone... :lol: ;)

I think you are a douchebag and I hang out with you at least 20 or so days a year.... ;-)
 

legalskier

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Well this broke down pretty fast. :-? Too bad--I had some other interesting stories/issues I wanted to get to eventually.
 

ctenidae

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Well this broke down pretty fast. :-? Too bad--I had some other interesting stories/issues I wanted to get to eventually.

It's not that we're not interested in the deeper psycho-social ramifications of online message boards, it's just that it's not often that we get into any sort deep philosophical discussion.

Unless Marc's been into the goat pen again.
 

2knees

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I am an advocate for full disclosure. Your user name is your real, verified name.

because you use the name "Bill" in your screen name doesnt make you any less anonymous then someone refering to themselves as lavalamp or whatever.
 

Grassi21

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Well this broke down pretty fast. :-? Too bad--I had some other interesting stories/issues I wanted to get to eventually.

Don't mind us. This thread will get back on track with our crack moderators.

I'll help....

I would say there are 5 or 6 posts a day that I type out, proof read, and then delete because because I would never throw the comment out in person. I think I have a decent personal filter. There are many on AZ that let the insults fly with no regard for others feelings. I will only cuss at or make fun of the guys I know personally.

Sorry for the hijack...
 

2knees

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Don't mind us for I play lax. This thread should be about lax and will get back on track with our lax moderators.

I'll help....

I would say there are 5 or 6 lax posts a day that I type out, proof read, and then delete because because I play lax and would never throw the comment out in person. I think I have a decent personal filter becaue I play lax. There are many on AZ that dont play lax but let the insults fly with no regard for others feelings, even though I play lax. I will only cuss at or make fun of the guys I know personally from lax. Btw, did i mention that I play lax?

Sorry for the laxjack...

what?
 

ctenidae

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Don't mind us. This thread will get back on track with our crack moderators.

I'll help....

I would say there are 5 or 6 posts a day that I type out, proof read, and then delete because because I would never throw the comment out in person. I think I have a decent personal filter. There are many on AZ that let the insults fly with no regard for others feelings. I will only cuss at or make fun of the guys I know personally.

Sorry for the hijack...

I delete 5 or 6 a day without posting because I find that I dont' actually care enough about the topic to pay enough attention to follow up if there are any responses to my post.
 

St. Bear

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I delete 5 or 6 a day without posting because I find that I dont' actually care enough about the topic to pay enough attention to follow up if there are any responses to my post.

Me too. That, or my response just wouldn't bring anything new to the table, so it's not worth wasting everybody's time.
 

Marc

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It's not that we're not interested in the deeper psycho-social ramifications of online message boards, it's just that it's not often that we get into any sort deep philosophical discussion.

Unless Marc's been into the goat pen again.

There's only one verifiable incident, and there's no longer and evidence... and furthermore, I didn't know it was a goat at the time.
 

ctenidae

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Me too. That, or my response just wouldn't bring anything new to the table, so it's not worth wasting everybody's time.

I'd agree with that, but my post count exposes the lie. It's probably more accurate to say that I make 5 or 6 posts a year that add value.

Unlike, of course, this one. Consider your time wasted. It's a service I provide free of charge.

:beer:
 

riverc0il

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My online life has always been fairly transparent... perhaps even more so than my regular life. You can find out more about me by digging around online than you could talking to me for an hour or two. I don't know why, but I have generally operated like that since 96 or so when I threw my first personal web page up. For some reason, I never thought twice about putting everything possible into an "About" page. I have on occasions posted something slightly out of line on the internet, but I don't think I have ever broken down into complete flaming. Perhaps that publicness makes it so I am no more of an ass online than I am in real life, for the most part. However, I think no one is immune from flaming away every once and a while when your blood boils up about something (or you have had a beer or three).

Any ways, I don't think there is any need to touch it. It is what it is and it will work itself out as it has with ski forums. Those who don't care post to TGR. Those who do care seek out forums where moderation keeps things in check. Self selection. And as internet arguments and lame behavior increases, I think we will see more and more online communities spring up in which people are more forthcoming with who they really are.

Look at FaceBook. WOW can you only imagine a community in which everyone uses their real names 10 years ago? People did not even want to create a user ID to go shopping online 10 years ago and creating a user ID to post in IRC was risque to the world at large (those crazy chat rooms!!). Now communities like FaceBook and LinkedIn and increasing and more and more people are being themselves online as people realize this whole internet thing isn't that crazy. I think it is still a developing trend but younger folks are leading the charge... those that came of age as Web 2.0 came about never knew a world in which you were not online as yourself through FaceBook. It will never be completely transparent, but I think we will see an increase in communities where transparency is encouraged and appreciated.
 
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