Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

[Harvey]

So heart disease kills more. It's not the first time we've done crazy shit in response to media hype. 3,000 were killed on 9/11 and we spent 6 trillion creating ISIS in response. How did that makes sense.

The media's reaction is a counter reaction to "other" extreme forces. We embraced those forces and now we have to deal with this. If you want moderation, you have to be moderate yourself.

I edited my last post, I was kidding about James Woods. I trust Fauci more. I don't see why that specific 75 year old guy would be bullshitting us.

 

[EPB]

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Guess so. From my perspective, you're basically just left-wing BG. It kinda cracks me up to see you two go at it. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure.

 

[Puck it]

That study is very specific and proves very little with all the numerous limitations of how the study was performed and what it was specifically intended to test.

• Didn't actually test mask effectiveness itself
• Was performed in a location where most people around you didn't wear masks (so mainly testing whether masks significantly protect the wearer)
• Was performed during a time when covid numbers were relatively low (so risk was low to begin with)
• Was performed while people were actively performing social distancing with many things still closed or on lockdown (again reducing risk to begin with)
• Was designed specifically to test whether it reduced risk by 50% or more (therefore there could actually be benefits of smaller amounts, but the study wasn't large enough to adequately measure that)
• Relied on self-reporting of people on whether they followed the instructions and wore the masks or wore them properly (so who knows if they did or not)

The problem is that people focus on studies like that to help their "case" that masks are pointless (which isn't at all what the study says). They take the results out of context and don't adequately understand it. And people taking things out of context and spreading inaccurate information is a big reason why we're where we are today. If people didn't try to constantly claim that "masks are useless", maybe we'd be in a much better situation than what we are. And the problem with the Internet in general is that it makes it incredibly easy for that inaccurate information to go viral and be shared with people who won't take the time to check into it any further on their own.

I was not reporting it as one way or another. I was pointing out that there other views. The paper states its own downfalls. Your points are valid. Conflicting view needs to be discussed. I stated that authors did not say masks were a bad idea.

So here is one. Scientifically explain why cases have gone up within states with mask mandates at exponential rate if masks are suppose to help. I have not found a paper that explains this. Peer reviewed. BTW, I wear one when inside but not outside when there is no crowd because I want to.

 

[Edd]

Guess so. From my perspective, you're basically just left-wing BG. It kinda cracks me up to see you two go at it. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure.

Since we’re sharing, I’ve viewed you as overzealous about characterizing yourself as super-politically-objective and clear-eyed. But I’ve been wrong before.

 

[cdskier]

I was not reporting it as one way or another. I was pointing out that there other views. The paper states its own downfalls. Your points are valid. Conflicting view needs to be discussed. I stated that authors did not say masks were a bad idea.

So here is one. Scientifically explain why cases have gone up within states with mask mandates at exponential rate if masks are suppose to help. I have not found a paper that explains this. Peer reviewed. BTW, I wear one when inside but not outside when there is no crowd because I want to.

I didn't say you were. However a LOT of people that think this is a hoax or are anti-mask ARE using that study as "proof" that masks aren't needed.

To your second question...it isn't my job to explain that. I could hypothesize some potential reasons though (people think a mask is the ONLY thing they need to do, people let their guard down with people they "know", people don't follow the mask mandates, etc).

 

[Puck it]

I didn't say you were. However a LOT of people that think this is a hoax or are anti-mask ARE using that study as "proof" that masks aren't needed.

To your second question...it isn't my job to explain that. I could hypothesize some potential reasons though (people think a mask is the ONLY thing they need to do, people let their guard down with people they "know", people don't follow the mask mandates, etc).

You are correct in a way and that is the government answer also which now putting the burden of the spread on the individual. The other is masks can be any material. Not being washed. Touching it. I think if you had a well controlled group for test than yes but people are not a well controlled group so I think you find that effectiveness will be below 20% in the real world. I am waiting for the paper some day.

 

[EPB]

Since we’re sharing, I’ve viewed you as overzealous about characterizing yourself as super-politically-objective and clear-eyed. But I’ve been wrong before.

I figured. I've told you before that we're all biased, and that my bias is that I'm a small government capitalist/libertarian. It makes me more disposed to the right than the left because the right at lest pretends to be small government (though less so under the orange man). But, I don't fit in with the Republican social program. Therefore, I don't feel allegiance to a tribe. It's also where I get my disdain for the idea that people in power of any stripe care about us. They care about power (sorry DHS and team - way off topic).

If you sense that I think I'm obnoxiously clear eyed about COVID, it's probably because I grew up listening to my parents swap stories about the surgeries they performed all day at the dinner table. I know what actual scientific command/rigor looks like (i.e. way beyond my level or the level of the overwhelming majority of this board). As an investor, my job is essentially a fact finding mission, and I spent the early part of my career building financial projection models. Going into the pandemic I was intimately familiar with the fact that projections are always wrong - the issue is by how much? A huge part of the job is identifying BS from investment bankers and management teams, and a huge part of the world today is being inundated with BS news to sort through.

Again, you seem like a well-intentioned guy. It's apparent that you took my last comment as a jab. While I think it's directionally accurate, it was harsher than I needed to be. So to that end, my apologies.

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Wasn’t surprised, and “thought police” is dramatic. It’s not too much to ask that coo-coo COVID denier garbage not be in the forum. There are sooooo many places on the internet for that. Other posters here talking about the vibe going downhill are talking about crap like that.

How about hysterical little COVID snitches and bitches like yourself Edd?

 

[JimG.]

I had one such at one time.

I went to stand in front of my cart!

ok, the cart isn't quite 6 feet long. But it's a lot better than 0 feet!

If I go skiing, and run into people who insist on getting too close on the lift line, I WILL use my poles to "enforce a bubble" around myself!

Ha I would look weird in the Christmas Tree store with ski poles.

 

[Edd]

Again, you seem like a well-intentioned guy. It's apparent that you took my last comment as a jab. While I think it's directionally accurate, it was harsher than I needed to be. So to that end, my apologies.

No hard feelings here.

 

[JimG.]

Wow and I thought I rambled on. I see things went downhill here.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Could you share the data indicating that the virus is not spreading in restaurant settings? I haven't seen anything to that effect but have seen case studies documenting viral transmission in restaurants.
It seems to me, indoor dining is problematic because diners can't wear masks and are expelling air and virus from the lungs when speaking. This is in contrast to public transportation like trains and planes, where people wear masks and dont speak much. same thing with classrooms.

If it was being spread in a restaurant environment believe me I would have it. We eat out 3 times a week on average.

 

[Puck it]

I figured. I've told you before that we're all biased, and that my bias is that I'm a small government capitalist/libertarian. It makes me more disposed to the right than the left because the right at lest pretends to be small government (though less so under the orange man). But, I don't fit in with the Republican social program. Therefore, I don't feel allegiance to a tribe. It's also where I get my disdain for the idea that people in power of any stripe care about us. They care about power (sorry DHS and team - way off topic).

If you sense that I think I'm obnoxiously clear eyed about COVID, it's probably because I grew up listening to my parents swap stories about the surgeries they performed all day at the dinner table. I know what actual scientific command/rigor looks like (i.e. way beyond my level or the level of the overwhelming majority of this board). As an investor, my job is essentially a fact finding mission, and I spent the early part of my career building financial projection models. Going into the pandemic I was intimately familiar with the fact that projections are always wrong - the issue is by how much? A huge part of the job is identifying BS from investment bankers and management teams, and a huge part of the world today is being inundated with BS news to sort through.

Again, you seem like a well-intentioned guy. It's apparent that you took my last comment as a jab. While I think it's directionally accurate, it was harsher than I needed to be. So to that end, my apologies.

I am physicist and I understand data can be manipulated and presented so that things can look the one wants. My biggest peeve is the media presenting graphs based on percentages when the sample size is small and stasitically not valid. Just one example. Another was the Irish and U.K. lockdown data used. Another topic.

 

[Harvey]

If it was being spread in a restaurant environment believe me I would have it. We eat out 3 times a week on average.

That data sample is certainly projectable across 350 million Americans.

 

[EPB]

I am physicist and I understand data can be manipulated and presented so that things can look the one wants. My biggest peeve is the media presenting graphs based on percentages when the sample size is small and stasitically not valid. Just one example. Another was the Irish and U.K. lockdown data used. Another topic.

I hear you. It also cracks me up how many weird but flawed studies make the news that are totally innocuous. When my in-laws built their new house, mother in law was talking about how she was glad they have multiple levels after hearing that people that live in multi-floor homes through retirement live better in old age or longer, something to that effect. I kinda just nodded, but couldn't help but thinking that the driver obviously wasn't anything to do with choosing a house. It was that the population that lives in multi-floor houses is likely much healthier (eliminates many wheelchair bound people for example) and wealthier (multi story are larger by-and-large).

 

[Not Sure]

A song to cheer up all the grumpy deprived skiers / riders

 

[Puck it]

I hear you. It also cracks me up how many weird but flawed studies make the news that are totally innocuous. When my in-laws built their new house, mother in law was talking about how she was glad they have multiple levels after hearing that people that live in multi-floor homes through retirement live better in old age or longer, something to that effect. I kinda just nodded, but couldn't help but thinking that the driver obviously wasn't anything to do with choosing a house. It was that the population that lives in multi-floor houses is likely much healthier (eliminates many wheelchair bound people for example) and wealthier (multi story are larger by-and-large).

Lol. The one that got me the other was that your dog can pass covid because they are not hygienetic. In the same study, they said online grocery could give covid. That was in the byline and obviously not peer reviewed.

 

[nhskier1969]

By January this US is going to be like old Germany, we all will need to carry traveling papers. Instead of the KGB is will be the CVD checking them.

Thought I would throw some laughter in....

 

[Puck it]

By January this US is going to be like old Germany, we all will need to carry traveling papers. Instead of the KGB is will be the CVD checking them.

Thought I would throw some laughter in....

Vee need to see vour papers!

 

[EPB]

That study is very specific and proves very little with all the numerous limitations of how the study was performed and what it was specifically intended to test.

• Didn't actually test mask effectiveness itself
• Was performed in a location where most people around you didn't wear masks (so mainly testing whether masks significantly protect the wearer)
• Was performed during a time when covid numbers were relatively low (so risk was low to begin with)
• Was performed while people were actively performing social distancing with many things still closed or on lockdown (again reducing risk to begin with)
• Was designed specifically to test whether it reduced risk by 50% or more (therefore there could actually be benefits of smaller amounts, but the study wasn't large enough to adequately measure that)
• Relied on self-reporting of people on whether they followed the instructions and wore the masks or wore them properly (so who knows if they did or not)

The problem is that people focus on studies like that to help their "case" that masks are pointless (which isn't at all what the study says). They take the results out of context and don't adequately understand it. And people taking things out of context and spreading inaccurate information is a big reason why we're where we are today. If people didn't try to constantly claim that "masks are useless", maybe we'd be in a much better situation than what we are. And the problem with the Internet in general is that it makes it incredibly easy for that inaccurate information to go viral and be shared with people who won't take the time to check into it any further on their own.

You do a great job of doing your homework. I can't remember if I've said that before, but it's impressive.