Killllington 🎿🏂🏂🎿🎿🏂🏂🎿😀

[drjeff]

Killington is an early season exception. They are willing to make snow knowing it will not "stick". They are will willing to spend the money to add ski days. Yep, the season (natural) is from mid December to end of March. I am dying to get back to Killington. I believe it's the best party mountain. If they ever legalize weed in Vermont. I think I'll move there.

They have had a bit of a pivot over the last few years now to one where they'll make snow early, but seem to be a bit more along the lines of, when they get a window that will BOTH allow them to get open and then very likely stay open vs in the past where a quick coat of snow over some fast grass ahead of a weather windown that was going to see them melt out and close until the next weather window of snowmaking arrived. Will be interesting in this 1st real, full year of the new ownership, how if any, changes that that early season ops model plays out

 

[kbroderick]

They have had a bit of a pivot over the last few years now to one where they'll make snow early, but seem to be a bit more along the lines of, when they get a window that will BOTH allow them to get open and then very likely stay open vs in the past where a quick coat of snow over some fast grass ahead of a weather windown that was going to see them melt out and close until the next weather window of snowmaking arrived. Will be interesting in this 1st real, full year of the new ownership, how if any, changes that that early season ops model plays out

Modern snowmaking equipment has moved towards prioritizing overall efficiency over maximum wet-bulb operational temps, though, right?

Between that and increased energy costs, I think the days of painting the hill white for a little bit of press and some of us with more-questionable sanity to get some turns are likely over. If the early-season players are willing to fire systems up at full blast as soon as they think the snow will stick around, but want to wait until they have enough for truly skiable terrain to push it out, I can live with that.

 

[urungus]

Killington is an early season exception. They are willing to make snow knowing it will not "stick". They are will willing to spend the money to add ski days. Yep, the season (natural) is from mid December to end of March. I am dying to get back to Killington. I believe it's the best party mountain. If they ever legalize weed in Vermont. I think I'll move there.

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Shop online, pick-up in-store! Adult-Use Cannabis Dispensary in Killington, VermontLocated above the Mountain Merchant Market.

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[letitsnow1]

The main reason they want to open and stay open is because the employees. They don't want to hire back the seasonal workforce then have to lay them off for a week or two.
With no world cup this year I think it's going to be a good early season, if the weather cooperates a little

 

[machski]

Modern snowmaking equipment has moved towards prioritizing overall efficiency over maximum wet-bulb operational temps, though, right?

Between that and increased energy costs, I think the days of painting the hill white for a little bit of press and some of us with more-questionable sanity to get some turns are likely over. If the early-season players are willing to fire systems up at full blast as soon as they think the snow will stick around, but want to wait until they have enough for truly skiable terrain to push it out, I can live with that.

Sort of, but K will switch off of Low-E guns on Rime and Upper East Fall early on if the wet bulb doesn't stay low as forecast. Rime usually has HKD's and K series guns at every hydrant, they try to use just low E but if they need the more marginal temp push once open to stay open, they will pivot to the air hogs.

 

[urungus]

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[doublediamond]

does it include any of the abandoned ski area?

 

[urungus]

does it include any of the abandoned ski area?

Yes, 309 acres

 

[skiur]

As well as the old ski lodge, what happened to the snowmobiles?

 

[urungus]

For $2.9 million (minimum) you can get a new townhouse at Bear Mountain Base Camp. Or for $4.2m (asking) you can get the entire old Sunrise lodge and 309 acres of ski trails… would be cool if the new Killington ownership re-purchased the land and added the trails back. I know it’s not going to happen due to the low elevation and cost of putting a chairlift and snowmaking back in. But still … it would be awesome to see Killington expanding again after decades of contraction.

 

[machski]

For $2.9 million (minimum) you can get a new townhouse at Bear Mountain Base Camp. Or for $4.2m (asking) you can get the entire old Sunrise lodge and 309 acres of ski trails… would be cool if the new Killington ownership re-purchased the land and added the trails back. I know it’s not going to happen due to the low elevation and cost of putting a chairlift and snowmaking back in. But still … it would be awesome to see Killington expanding again after decades of contraction.

Relax, of the village is really on the cusp, the interconnect is in the decade view. That will include expansion you desire.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Relax, of the village is really on the cusp, the interconnect is in the decade view. That will include expansion you desire.

And to much better terrain, FWIW.

That assumes the interconnect even happens though. I'd put the chances at around 35-40%. That's at least $50M worth of investment to bring to life between lifts, trails, snowmaking and any other infrastructure needed out there, so it won't be easy.

 

[cdskier]

And to much better terrain, FWIW.

That assumes the interconnect even happens though. I'd put the chances at around 35-40%. That's at least $50M worth of investment to bring to life between lifts, trails, snowmaking and any other infrastructure needed out there, so it won't be easy.

I also suspect there would be a decent amount of opposition to the interconnect from people that like Pico having a unique identity and believe it should stay that way. Considering how much investment would be needed, I'm really not sure the ROI is there to even think about moving forward with that ever.

 

[skiur]

Once the village is done and the replace the snowshed and ramshead lodges the interconnect will be happening. Won't happen before the reworking of those base areas into one.

 

[kbroderick]

I also suspect there would be a decent amount of opposition to the interconnect from people that like Pico having a unique identity and believe it should stay that way. Considering how much investment would be needed, I'm really not sure the ROI is there to even think about moving forward with that ever.

The folks in the new ownership group have enough business experience to recognize that capital spending needs ROI to make business sense. I could see them perhaps making smaller investments on a "we don't need to calculate ROI because we know this will improve the skier experience" basis, but the interconnect is a whole different scale and will create ongoing operational costs as well as the capital outlay.

 

[letitsnow1]

It will be at least 20 years before the interconnect happens

 

[joshua segal]

It’s clear to me that the industry is in desperate need of more terrain. There’s more than adequate lift capacity at most areas, but the trails are overcrowded. Best estimates are that we have 4 times as many skiers per acre-hour than we did 50-years ago at peak times.

 

[Killingtime]

It will be at least 20 years before the interconnect happens

You're probably not wrong. When I bought a condo there in 2007 everyone was talking about the new village that was going up. I remember thinking maybe I should have waited for the new development instead of buying an older property. Here we are 18 years later still waiting. Things happen very slowly there.

 

[mister moose]

It’s clear to me that the industry is in desperate need of more terrain. There’s more than adequate lift capacity at most areas, but the trails are overcrowded. Best estimates are that we have 4 times as many skiers per acre-hour than we did 50-years ago at peak times.

So why did they build more lift capacity without building more terrain? Could it be the revenue per acre especially per snowmaking acre, is something they are actively managing?

If so, there is no "desperate need" until the client base votes with their wallet.

 

[drjeff]

So why did they build more lift capacity without building more terrain? Could it be the revenue per acre especially per snowmaking acre, is something they are actively managing?

If so, there is no "desperate need" until the client base votes with their wallet.

I think that some of the lack of new terrain acres, especially in the East, has to be tied to the massive amount of environmental regulations that have to be met (and often litigated through) to get to the point where a ski area can think about contacting a logging/land clearing/grading firm to get the project going