Keep saying that. It applies to your position on how things are going with Sugarbush. Enjoy your new Magic Carpet while Deer Valley breaks in 8 new chairlifts this season.
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The ALTERRA SUCKS Thread
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
Smellytele
Well-known member
Wasn’t it discussed that Alterra isn’t being subsidized by the developer?
Nobody here knows for sure who is paying for what at Mayflower. I have asked folks to show us that information and there has been nothing to date.
But I can also point to other Alterra areas that are getting more capital investment--Steamboat, Winter Park, Palisades, Stratton. Not to mention the acquisitions of Schweitzer and A-Basin.
I am very skeptical of Alterra. I always have been. I just think that a lot of Sugarbush locals were overly optimistic about the change in ownership to Alterra. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical and asking questions about what is really going on. And again, I loved my time at Sugarbush and want nothing more than for it to do well.
AdironRider
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Dude, you need to accept that it is a combination of factors and not just Ikon. You can't discount that over 100k people have moved to the SLC area as a complete non-factor as if none of them ski. Go ski Sundance if the crowds are that bad.
Vail, Alterra, crowds, doesn't matter you got a gripe. Even when Alterra makes improvements, including the largest terrain expansion to happen in the US ski industry ever, its not enough.
Vail, Alterra, crowds, doesn't matter you got a gripe. Even when Alterra makes improvements, including the largest terrain expansion to happen in the US ski industry ever, its not enough.
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We don't allow trolling. Or your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Why do I say that? Because I've already conceded that years ago. Go back to your hole.
AdironRider
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Anytime you lose an argument you call it trolling. Population gains are literally being debated today in this thread you just don’t like it because makes you look bad.
Nice try. I recommend reading somone's posts before commenting. It makes you look as smart as you claim to be.
https://vermontbiz.com/news/2025/june/06/vermonts-ski-areas-boast-growth-416-skier-visits-2024-25
Didn‘t notice because it’s well known recent numbers are similar.
You have no evidence Alterra funded any of the Deer Valley expansion (and you admit in a subsequent post that no one knows definitively who paid for it). So until you have evidence they DID pay for it, this is a poor argument and you should stop bringing it up..
I never expected Alterra to change things overnight. We already have a new HG lift (which Win himself said he would not have been able to fund at the price it ended up costing). We also have millions invested in snow-making infrastructure improvements (which you also continue to ignore). So we're already ahead of the game. I'm a realist/pragmatist. I don't expect miracles. I do however expect better communication on what the long term master plan is from John H. I don't have a lot of faith in local leadership at the moment. That's my biggest gripe for now. And proper communication costs nothing.
80's ( when I started at K-Mart) was great - even with heavy, wet, 'white water' manmade snow. I recall lots of lines and HSQ were just starting- but like vacations where you recall the great without the rain- 80's rocked. I wonder how many ski areas were around then? Skied Haystack and recall riding by Roundtop, Maple Valley, and Mt Snow had that chair that sat on snow in the woods- not above ground. I even rode the Cranmore Skimobile with the Cali guy who taught me how to ski laughing and cursing all the way to the 'top' on that thing.
'80-'81 had an almost 50% jump, then 30% up '82 ( year I started) then 25% drop '83- I remember that well, no friggen snow.
raisingarizona
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It’s totally F-d the ski experience at the most popular areas. Corporate conglomerate ski passes are terrible for skiing.
I was a die hard ski bum for years and now I don’t want anything to do with most major ski resorts.
My last home ski area AZ Snowbowl/MCP is ruined for us older local skiers. The new generations don’t know the difference and it’s extremely successful but I’m not going to spend my free time battling traffic to be there to then ski on ridiculously dangerous and crowded ski runs and mostly stand in lines all day. There’s so many people on skiing at once that I can’t even get a real turn in and I’m constantly on guard. That’s just not fun imho. I don’t see any value in that and I’d rather go do other outdoor activities where I don’t really see anyone else.
I’m very thankful I got to ski bum in the 90’s and early 2000’s. I feel fully content and satisfied.
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BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Not sure what your point is?
Stowe is a total zoo now post EPIC, and it wasn't a zoo pre EPIC; while you simultaneously note Vermont skier/rider visits have stayed static pre/post EPIC.
Seems pretty obvious EPIC corralling is the primary driver / problem.
Stowe is more crowded. When it was privately held passes were around $1800. It wasn’t a business, it was an AIG sandbox. Cheap passes didn’t start with EPIC, they date back to ASC and the all for one era. When POWDR bought Killington they raised prices, cut snow making, opened late and closed early. The goal was to “improve yield”. They gave away market share that has taken years to get back. Given that there has been no growth in Vt. skiing since the 80’s, not a well thought out business decision.
A lot of the apparent crowding is due to the growth in high speed lifts and improved grooming. Less time on the lift, less time on the slope, more time spent in lines. There are fewer ski areas as well, as smaller Vermont hills have closed as well. I don’t believe the numbers lie, but changes in the counting methodology have. More automated scanners, etc. which means resorts have far better numbers and less reliant on guest-imates.
Substantive changes in skier visits nationally have occurred due to Western Resorts, driven by inexpensive and frequent airline flights, but also driven by lower operating costs; less snow making and more abundant snowfall.
Your saying this is an issue during the week or just weekends?
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