Trails that have lost Character!

[wa-loaf]

Gregs revival of that character thread made me think of all the trails that used to have character, but have been widened and flattened over the years.

My nomination is Widowmaker at Sugarloaf. The trail used to be tight narrow and had all gnarly dips, drop-offs, no grooming, and very much lived up to it's name. Now it's mostly a blue square.

What trail(s) do you miss?

 

[Newpylong]

Big Dipper at Killington... Used to be an entire mountainside of glade/tree skiing. In 1992 they cut Double Dipper and since then the Big Dipper woods have been devastated by wind. I like having the Canyon lift, perhaps cutting a narrower trail like East Fall to go along with the lift would have been better...

 

[skiadikt]

Big Dipper at Killington... Used to be an entire mountainside of glade/tree skiing. In 1992 they cut Double Dipper and since then the Big Dipper woods have been devastated by wind. I like having the Canyon lift, perhaps cutting a narrower trail like East Fall to go along with the lift would have been better...

yeah that ugly scar called double dipper also ruined lower downdraft. they pretty much clear cutted that entire area. the lift is great but i think it would have been cool not to have cut a trail at all but just used the liftline as a trail. plenty of snowmaking, no grooming, ability to jump in and out of the trees on both sides ... it could have been a signature trail.

 

[SkiDog]

2 words...

OUTER LIMITS...

What ever happened to FULL BUMPS?

M

 

[Angus]

saw the name of this thread and immediately thought of widowmaker or that whole king pine area - I had skipped 20 years at sugarloaf until 3 seasons ago and didn't recognize the place when i got back up there - there use to be a compression point coming down from somewhere that would bring tears to your eyes - that whole area was gnarly! now it's all wide open, obstacles have been removed, etc!

 

[wa-loaf]

there use to be a compression point coming down from somewhere that would bring tears to your eyes - that whole area was gnarly! now it's all wide open, obstacles have been removed, etc!

Yea, the trail crossed a big gully or something. I remember you'd fly off the lip and try to survive as the trail rose up under you on the other side. :-o

That whole area got tamed in the late 80's, by 91 or so it was like it is now. Only thing new since then is that they opened some glades and put Cant Dog on the map.

 

[Newpylong]

yeah that ugly scar called double dipper also ruined lower downdraft. they pretty much clear cutted that entire area. the lift is great but i think it would have been cool not to have cut a trail at all but just used the liftline as a trail. plenty of snowmaking, no grooming, ability to jump in and out of the trees on both sides ... it could have been a signature trail.

Good point..this is what I meant by narrow trail - the liftline.. oh well. I would love to see them rop off skier's right of Double Dip and let it grow back..

 

[Angus]

Yea, the trail crossed a big gully or something. I remember you'd fly off the lip and try to survive as the trail rose up under you on the other side. :-o

That whole area got tamed in the late 80's, by 91 or so it was like it is now. Only thing new since then is that they opened some glades and put Cant Dog on the map.

thanks for remembering, I've mentioned that feature tons of times and usually just get blank stares - you'd hang onto the t-bar going up and then skiing down, my memories are cold and trying to avoid trees sticking out of snow!

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Most of Mt. Ellen. The following trails were needlessly raped: Elbow, Exterminator, Cruiser FIS, Which Way, Upper Rim Run, North Star, Crackerjack, Brambles, Inverness.

That doesn't change the fact that it's my favorite mountain in the NE. But it still frustrates me!

Check out these old pix:

Compare those with a current photo:

The difference is clear!

 

[kcyanks1]

Most of Mt. Ellen. The following trails were needlessly raped: Elbow, Exterminator, Cruiser FIS, Which Way, Upper Rim Run, North Star, Crackerjack, Brambles, Inverness.

That doesn't change the fact that it's my favorite mountain in the NE. But it still frustrates me!

[...]

The difference is clear!

I don't doubt you, but it's tough to tell from the photos since it seems that the more recent one is taken from closer/zoomed in a lot more.

Edit: Well, I take that back. You can at least compare relative sizes of trails and see that some changes were made. Especially with FIS.

 

[kcyanks1]

Big Dipper at Killington... Used to be an entire mountainside of glade/tree skiing. In 1992 they cut Double Dipper and since then the Big Dipper woods have been devastated by wind. I like having the Canyon lift, perhaps cutting a narrower trail like East Fall to go along with the lift would have been better...

Wasn't East Fall itself widened? I think I've only skied it in its current state or something close to its current state, but I recall riding the K-Peak double one summer and East Fall looked a lot narrower. I also remember it being described as a funnel, and my dad said he recalls that from when he skied it in college. It has no character now, even before you get to the fact that it's groomed.

 

[kcyanks1]

The Rumor at Gore was changed a couple times in its short existance. The changes are probably not as drastic as with other trails, but they did some extra dynamiting on the headwall and they didn't groom the headwall for at least the first year. The first time I was on it it was much more difficult than more recent years (I haven't been to Gore in a couple seasons). The middle was essentially a cliff, rather than a groomed slope. Skier's left had a tight line and skier's right was a double fall-line toward the woods. Much of that is gone because of the dynamiting and/or grooming. I believe they may have widened it slightly but I'm not sure.

 

[kcyanks1]

I don't know from personal experience, but Nosedive at Stowe has to qualify. It is famous for all the turns at the top that no longer exist. Liftline and National also have been de-characterized.

 

[riverc0il]

A lot of trails at Stowe would qualify. A lot of trails everywhere would qualify. Fact is, any ski area older than 30 or 40 years has probably seen significant de-characterization through wider trails without trail islands due to increased snow making, grooming, up hill capacity, and desire of skiers that want to ski wide open cruising due to the technique and equipment developments that made the carved turn prevalent for the average non-racing skier. A lot of things happened at fairly similar time in which technology, technique, and numbers of skiers changed the face of the industry, and with it, the face of many ski trails throughout New England.

Sad thing is that you can always widen and straighten a trail, but you can never have those curves and character back (at least without a serious and long term reforestation effort such as Mad River's).

Those photo comparisons of Sugarbush are telling. But similar comparisons could be produced for a great many trails throughout New England.

 

[snoseek]

middle cannon, middle ravine, lot's of killington peak trails, and barker/locke at s.r. this is a price you pay with high speed lifts. it's a nessecary evil imo.

carving big wide turns on open groomers can be fun but skinny winding trails really ski long to me.

 

[Newpylong]

Yes, East Fall was widened. I can't recall if this occured as part of the Canyon in '92 or not.. it always had snowmaking as did Cascade and Downdraft though... Before the installation of tower guns in the past few years it was always an incing skating rink.. since then there has been decent snow and its a nice bail out of the bumps on Downdraft or Double Dip.

 

[Mike_451]

Most of Mt. Ellen. The following trails were needlessly raped: Elbow, Exterminator, Cruiser FIS, Which Way, Upper Rim Run, North Star, Crackerjack, Brambles, Inverness.

That doesn't change the fact that it's my favorite mountain in the NE. But it still frustrates me!

Check out these old pix:

Compare those with a current photo:

The difference is clear!

Heh, that first pic is really old to the point it shows Old FIS, which is now for the most part overgrown.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Downdraft, Dipper, The glades, East Fall, what about...Superstar? Turn a trail into a boulevard.

Sugarloaf has seen some devastation, too (I just don't pay enough attention to the trail names the few times a season I get there.), but it pales in comparision to the distruction at K-mart.

 

[skiadikt]

Yes, East Fall was widened. I can't recall if this occured as part of the Canyon in '92 or not.. it always had snowmaking as did Cascade and Downdraft though... Before the installation of tower guns in the past few years it was always an incing skating rink.. since then there has been decent snow and its a nice bail out of the bumps on Downdraft or Double Dip.

yeah i remember it having some trees or least a tree island on the upper part of the trail. i used to think of it as a sister trail to royal flush as opposed to the fast groomer it's begun. pretty sure those changes happened as you said when the canyon quad was built.

like sledhaulingmedic said, the whole superstar area was pillaged and plundered. before the lift, skye lark & superstar were 2 narrow trails. but i guess it's all in the name of 'progress'.

 

[wa-loaf]

Does anyone know of a site that has old ski maps and/or pics of ski areas it the 70's and 80's or older? I did a quick google search and came up with nothing.