Skiings dirty little secret

[Dr Skimeister]

After reading this thread, I'll be curious to know how many of those idling buses are occupied by their drivers. My guess is that the majority of them are.

These people are paid to drive a load of skiers/riders to whatever mountain and are then obliged to sit there and wait until the appointed load time occurs. Some might while away their time in a lodge or a local eatery, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large number just chill in their bus, probably snoozing a good part of the day away. Is there a way to keep the cabin warm enough for the drivers without running the engine?

 

[kcyanks1]

OK,I'm far from a tree hugger but I fail to see why buses need to be running all day.As said before,they don't run all night so the brake freezing argument is out

I believe they *do* run all night. At least from one conversation I had with a driver earlier this season, the bus was left running all night to prevent freezing (whether it was the brakes or something else I can't recall).

Edit to add: I'm not saying I know for a scientific fact that it is necessary to run the bus for the freezing reason or at what temperature it becomes necessary. I just know, from one example, that a bus driver said that the bus needed to run.

 

[izzy]

Some states (I know ny and nj have them) laws against truck/bus idling for more than 5 minutes.

 

[kcyanks1]

Some states (I know ny and nj have them) laws against truck/bus idling for more than 5 minutes.

I believe in NY the law is dependent on temperature. I think below 15 degrees or something like that there is no limit, and at slightly higher temps the limit is above 5 minutes. Could be wrong though. I thought I read this sometime yesterday, but I tried a quick search and couldn't find anything, and need to get back to work

 

[ctenidae]

Sounds like a somewhat daunting crusade, but good luck with it.

Might not be that tough. After all, it's federal law that semi rigs can't idle. Whynot busses, too?

 

[jaywbigred]

Give me one good reason why there would be fewer buses at ski areas if legislation was put into place to prohibit idling?

Do you honestly think people will stop using the bus if it's not idling while in the parking lot? Busses will only stop running to ski areas if the demand isn't there. I've never seen the demand so high as it is now. Friends of mine in the Boston area who would've never taken the bus to go skiing now do so because it's less expensive than driving.

I'm all for encouraging mass transit, but I do think it should be done in an environmentally responsible way. There is NO WAY anit-idling legislation is going to reduce ridership demand.

A little logic:

1) Though here on this forum we have not discerned the reason for the buses idling (though theories have been espoused, brake lines freezing, warmth of driver, and so on), let us assume
2) The buses are not doing it "for fun" or "without reason." In other words, let us assume that the bus companies are attempting to accomplish something by leaving the buses running, and that its not just a symptom of drivers so lazy that they won't turn the key to shut off the bus. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the bus companies and assume that there is a legitimate business prupose (the "LBP") for wanting to idle the buses. Thus
3) Whatever it is, the LBP would be stymied by laws or rules forcing buses not to idle, unless there was an alternative way of accomplishing same provided (e.g. the electrical plug-ins Mt. Snow provides), this would lead to
4) Bus companies being forced to make a choice, i.e. do they a) find an alternative way to accomplish the LBP, perhaps at the expense of either the bus company, or, worse, the passenger, b) discontinue trips to resorts that enforce said rules, or c) limit trips to resorts that have the Mt. Snow style hook-ups.

My worry is that all of the above, 4(a), 4(b) and 4(c) have a chilling effect on the overall rate of bus trips to ski resorts. This results in more cars on the road in the long run, and the overall effect of forcing buses not to idle is a Net Negative for the environment.

I am not saying I know this as fact, but it is possible. The person lobbying for change should know these answers before they attempt to bring about that change no?

1) What is the reason for idling?
2) What footprint is left by a roundtrip bus trip + idling?
3) What footprint is left by a roundtrip bus trip + alternative (e.g. Mt. Snow electrical hook-up)?
4) What footprint is left by 25 rountrip car trips w/ no idling?
5) Would forcing the bus companies to use alternatives to idling result in increased prices to consumers of bus trips?
6) If yes to 5), would increased prices of bus trips decrease consumer demand for bus trips, resulting in more car trips?

I think there are possible answers to these questions that lead to a definite conculsion that buses should not idle; and there are answers to these questions that lead to a definite conclusion that buses should idle.

 

[ctenidae]

1) Ban bus idling at resorts
2) Install pay-for-service power supplies for the busses
3) Profit!

 

[Dr Skimeister]

A modest proposal:

1) Combine this thread with the "Ever had sex on the mountain?" thread.
2) Have the bus companies rent out the warmed up buses to the "gotta get it now" crowd
3) Profits for the bus companies and whoever gets the mountain condom concession

 

[tjf67]

A modest proposal:

1) Combine this thread with the "Ever had sex on the mountain?" thread.
2) Have the bus companies rent out the warmed up buses to the "gotta get it now" crowd
3) Profits for the bus companies and whoever gets the mountain condom concession[/QUO

This is the best

 

[SkiDork]

yes, I like Dr Skimeister's proposal. I'll work on that one.

 

[jaywbigred]

1) Ban bus idling at resorts
2) Install pay-for-service power supplies for the busses
3) Profit!

A Fark reader?

A modest proposal:

1) Combine this thread with the "Ever had sex on the mountain?" thread.
2) Have the bus companies rent out the warmed up buses to the "gotta get it now" crowd
3) Profits for the bus companies and whoever gets the mountain condom concession

I agree with this. This is kind of like jet companies that rent out their otherwise-empty jets to people who want to join the mile high club.

Can we come up with a catchy name like "mile high club"?

 

[wa-loaf]

Can we come up with a catchy name like "mile high club"?

Yea, that'll only work out west unless you want to plant a few buses up on the presidentials. :lol:

 

[Dr Skimeister]

A Fark reader?



I agree with this. This is kind of like jet companies that rent out their otherwise-empty jets to people who want to join the mile high club.

Can we come up with a catchy name like "mile high club"?

Notch In The Ski-Pole Club?

 

[Paul]

1) Ban bus idling at resorts
2) Install pay-for-service power supplies for the busses
3) Profit!

Pretty good, but a real Farker would know that step 2 must be: ???

 

[drjeff]

A modest proposal:

1) Combine this thread with the "Ever had sex on the mountain?" thread.
2) Have the bus companies rent out the warmed up buses to the "gotta get it now" crowd
3) Profits for the bus companies and whoever gets the mountain condom concession

Now that is a brilliant example of multi-tasking!

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

After reading this thread, I'll be curious to know how many of those idling buses are occupied by their drivers. My guess is that the majority of them are.

These people are paid to drive a load of skiers/riders to whatever mountain and are then obliged to sit there and wait until the appointed load time occurs. Some might while away their time in a lodge or a local eatery, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large number just chill in their bus, probably snoozing a good part of the day away. Is there a way to keep the cabin warm enough for the drivers without running the engine?

Yes. There are several makes of both air heaters and Hydronics that can run on gas, diesel or compressed gases (LPG or CNG). I have a small one in my Pick up so I can get into a nice warm truck at the end of the day. One of the most popular is made by Espar. Most buses and coaches need one anyway, because the engine does not produce enough heat to keep the cabin warm. The problem is likely that they use an air heater to heat the cabin, rather than a hydronic unit to heat the engine block.

Brakes don't freeze if you have an airdrier on the brake system. If the bus is spec'd out right, there is no need for idling.

 

[ctenidae]

Pretty good, but a real Farker would know that step 2 must be: ???

Yeah, I know, except that actually is a viable Step 2. There's a company, the name of which I forget (though I know the investors/owners fairly well), that is installing similar systems in truckstops around the country. It fits in the truck window, and provides heat/AC, cable, internet and power. Pretty sanzzy.

Actually, the guys I know own the company that is making the housings and sheds. Some other guys who I don't know as well are installing and maintaining the units.

 

[Marc]

What about shooting the drivers in the face? Too extreme?

 

[ctenidae]

What about shooting the drivers in the face? Too extreme?

Talk about putting a dent in business. All those skiers would be stuck at the mountain. No repeat customers.

 

[Marc]

Talk about putting a dent in business. All those skiers would be stuck at the mountain. No repeat customers.

I'm going to kick ass at my MBA classes.