Custom DIN settings

[speden]

I was wondering if most people here set their bindings to the standard chart DIN settings, or if you have picked different settings for some reason. I just bought my first set of skis, so had to ponder what DIN Settings to use.

The chart seems like a pretty crude method to me, designed for rental counters to quickly come up with a conservative setting. It doesn't really take into account things like the skiing style, snow conditions, type of trails you ski, boot and ski stiffness, or skier joint strength. I'm also suspicious that the chart is designed by ski manufacturing companies, and they are probably more worried about the liability of skis pre-releasing and someone sailing off into a tree, rather than someone tearing their knees up in a crash. So maybe they have set the chart to recommend settings that are higher than needed for many people.

For myself, I find the chart setting is too high, and I've had a couple bad knee sprains from minor falls where the ski either didn't come off, or took too much force before it released. On the other side, I've never had a ski pre-release on me during my normal skiing. But the trouble with bindings is they don't record the high water mark on stress, so after making a run, you can't look at a guage and see how close you came or didn't come to an unwanted release.

 

[Puck it]

Cranked up. Set to 10 where the guide 7.5 for me.

 

[thorski]

8

 

[KevinF]

The chart seems like a pretty crude method to me, designed for rental counters to quickly come up with a conservative setting. It doesn't really take into account things like the skiing style, snow conditions, type of trails you ski, boot and ski stiffness, or skier joint strength.

I think the "skier type" (i.e., I / II / III) that is integrated into the DIN settings chart is supposed to accomodate the variables you mention above. i.e, Type I skiers (beginners) probably aren't seeking out non-groomed snow conditions, steep trails, or using stiff skis. Type III "advanced" skiers probably are seeking out variable snow, steeper trails, and are (possibly) using stiffer skis.

With higher DIN settings you increase your risk of getting hurt because your skis didn't come off. If you're not comfortable with that, then lower your DIN. Sounds like you're a candidate for lower your settings a notch.

 

[wa-loaf]

Go by the chart to start. If you feel you are popping out too easily bump them up a notch. Or if you felt they didn't release when you would have liked, dial them down a bit.

I do a little racing and ski aggressively so I have mine bumped up bit. 9 or 10 I think.

 

[snowmonster]

^ What wa-loaf said.

The chart is a good base. Because of liability issues, a ski shop will follow the chart -- unless you specifically instruct them to dial it up or down in which case, you'll sign off on a waiver (that is, if they agree to do it). So, unless you're really intent on taking things into your own hands, stick to the chart.

If not then dial up or down as your needs (and knees) will allow. Be sure that you go up or down in .5 increments so that you don't get too jarred. On the high end of the spectrum, the enemy is pre-release so the DIN settings are higher. On the lower end of the DIN scale, you want the skis to pop off at the first sign of trouble.

There are a lot of incidents where low speed crashes or falls result in injuries because the force needed to release the bindings were not high enough. This may have happened to you when you sprained your knee. While you think you may be a candidate for a lower setting, the obvious trade-off is that you risk pre-releasing in moderate speed. Basically, you have to see which risk is worth the precaution.

In my case, the chart says I should be at an 8.5 DIN. Because of what I do on the hill, I've cranked it up to 9.5.

 

[speden]

Wow, you guys use some pretty high settings. I was doing some tests in my living room to see how much force it took to make the bindings release, and above a setting of about 4, I found my knees and achilles started complaining. I guess I must have weak ligaments, because I think if I set it to something like nine, there's no way those skis are coming off without me tearing a ligament.

When you guys decided to go above the chart, was it because you had skis come off unexpectedly? What kind of stuff made them release, just a normal high speed turn, or did you hit a rut or something unusual? I'm not sure how much margin of retention I should be shooting for beyond "normal" conditions.

Well I ski mostly blues and greens, make wide turns on groomers, and never twist my feet to turn, so probably I'm fairly safe going with below chart settings.

 

[St. Bear]

Wow, you guys use some pretty high settings. I was doing some tests in my living room to see how much force it took to make the bindings release, and above a setting of about 4, I found my knees and achilles started complaining. I guess I must have weak ligaments, because I think if I set it to something like nine, there's no way those skis are coming off without me tearing a ligament.

When you guys decided to go above the chart, was it because you had skis come off unexpectedly? What kind of stuff made them release, just a normal high speed turn, or did you hit a rut or something unusual? I'm not sure how much margin of retention I should be shooting for beyond "normal" conditions.

Well I ski mostly blues and greens, make wide turns on groomers, and never twist my feet to turn, so probably I'm fairly safe going with below chart settings.

Keep in mind that a majority of the posters on this site are bump skiers, so I'm sure they're looking for a higher setting that will keep the skis on their feet while experiencing a lot of flexing and twists in a mogul field.

 

[andyzee]

Just set them to the highest DIN and you should be ok..

 

[wa-loaf]

When you guys decided to go above the chart, was it because you had skis come off unexpectedly? What kind of stuff made them release, just a normal high speed turn, or did you hit a rut or something unusual? I'm not sure how much margin of retention I should be shooting for beyond "normal" conditions.

For me it's two things: the NASTAR racing; i don't want them coming off going a round a gate and I keep them comparatively low when you consider some race bindings go up to 20 DIN. I also ski pretty fast through crud and bumps and don't want my skis to pop off just cause they got knocked around a little.

I have dialed back a little since I blew my ACL last year (from a collision, not binding related).

 

[snowmonster]

Not a bumper at all. To me, bumps are just another terrain feature you encounter on the hill -- or in tracked out glades. I dialled up the DIN after I started pre-releasing on icy bumps at MRG. I kind of ski aggresively and am getting into the habit of jumping off stuff.

The living room rug is no substitute for the hill. When going down hill, gravity and the hill itself exert force on your ski which must be countered by your bindings. So, if you're popping out of your bindings at DIN 4 in your living room, you might be popping out of them at the slightest movement going down hill on a green slope. Pre-release can be a source of injury too so don't discount it. Imagine going on a skateboard and having someone pull the board from underneath you. That's what a pre-release feels like. It doesn't matter how fast you're going, you can still hurt yourself.

 

[mondeo]

I'm also suspicious that the chart is designed by ski manufacturing companies, and they are probably more worried about the liability of skis pre-releasing and someone sailing off into a tree, rather than someone tearing their knees up in a crash. So maybe they have set the chart to recommend settings that are higher than needed for many people.

Other way around. They're more concerned about people suing them for a ski not releasing than for prerelease. Obviously, if it prereleased, a moment was applied that exceeded the safe value for that skier, and therefore performed its intended role. For the vast majority of the skiing public, a non-release is more hazardous than a pre-release.

A lot of people on this site don't fall into that vast majority, though. The average skier gets out 4-5 times a year. The average active poster on this site probably gets out 4-5 times per month, at least.

I'm at 8, probably should bump it up to 9 or 10. My Wateas I have set a bit lower because they shouldn't be seeing the same impacts as my Twisters. I've met people that have it set at 14-15. It depends on the binding, too; if yours has better prerelease characteristics, you don't need to set the DIN as high.

Both non-releases and pre-releases are dangerous. If you aren't having issues with pre-releases, you should be fine with what's on the chart. Bindings don't release under all types of forces/moments, so the fact that you had a knee injury isn't indicitive of the DIN being set too high.

 

[speden]

... The living room rug is no substitute for the hill. When going down hill, gravity and the hill itself exert force on your ski which must be countered by your bindings. So, if you're popping out of your bindings at DIN 4 in your living room, you might be popping out of them at the slightest movement going down hill on a green slope. ...

That's something I'm worried about, but don't really understand why an actual release on the hill would apply less force to my knee than when I angle it over and twist out in my living room. If a DIN setting hurts in my living room, I figure it will hurt just as much if I get a release on the hill, and maybe more because my muscles won't be braced for it. When I'm out skiing I never feel anywhere close to as much stress on my knee as is required to twist out in my living room. That makes me think my skiing style doesn't apply all that much release force to the bindings.

Does the skier's momentum apply a lot of the release force rather than the ligament? In the living room my foot has no momentum, so all the release force is being applied through my knee, but on the mountain I guess my booted foot would have some momentum, so the knee ligament wouldn't be generating all the release force. I was also thinking vibration of the ski when going through crud could possibly trip the heel release without my ligaments having to apply the force, but even that it seems like I'd need to do something style wise to really load the front of the ski. I tend to just apply a slight forward pressure on the skis (unless I'm crashing forward).

 

[speden]

For me it's two things: the NASTAR racing; i don't want them coming off going a round a gate and I keep them comparatively low when you consider some race bindings go up to 20 DIN. I also ski pretty fast through crud and bumps and don't want my skis to pop off just cause they got knocked around a little.

I have dialed back a little since I blew my ACL last year (from a collision, not binding related).

That's interesting. Sounds like you didn't really have a pre-release incident that drove you to higher settings, but more the psychology of pre-empting that from ever happening. I wish ski bindings had some kind of trip flag that would trip red if you hit 75% of your DIN setting. Then people could see how close to pre-release they are actually skiing. If I had a feature like that, I'd just keep dialing it down until the warning flag started going off.

I can see where if you're going fast during a race, losing a ski would be a big concern. When I'm going a lot faster than my comfort zone, I sometimes think, man, it would really suck if a ski came off right now. But my knees feel fragile, so that feeling is usually overridden by the thought that if I fall and the ski doesn't come off, my knee could really get hosed.

 

[bvibert]

That's something I'm worried about, but don't really understand why an actual release on the hill would apply less force to my knee than when I angle it over and twist out in my living room. If a DIN setting hurts in my living room, I figure it will hurt just as much if I get a release on the hill, and maybe more because my muscles won't be braced for it. When I'm out skiing I never feel anywhere close to as much stress on my knee as is required to twist out in my living room. That makes me think my skiing style doesn't apply all that much release force to the bindings.

Does the skier's momentum apply a lot of the release force rather than the ligament? In the living room my foot has no momentum, so all the release force is being applied through my knee, but on the mountain I guess my booted foot would have some momentum, so the knee ligament wouldn't be generating all the release force. I was also thinking vibration of the ski when going through crud could possibly trip the heel release without my ligaments having to apply the force, but even that it seems like I'd need to do something style wise to really load the front of the ski. I tend to just apply a slight forward pressure on the skis (unless I'm crashing forward).

I think you're putting way too much thought into this. Set them to where the chart says they should, or a bit below if you're really concerned and see how they work out. If you start pre-releasing then crank them back up a little.

 

[bvibert]

Keep in mind that a majority of the posters on this site are bump skiers, so I'm sure they're looking for a higher setting that will keep the skis on their feet while experiencing a lot of flexing and twists in a mogul field.

I really doubt that a majority of the posters on this site would consider themselves bump skiers. There's a bunch of talk about bump skiing and a lot of the most active posters like bumps, but not a majority, IMHO.

 

[snowmonster]

Hill = gravity x skier's weight x speed
Living room = force applied by skier only

If you're worried about your knees, wear a brace and strengthen your quads. I'd stay within the manufacturer's setting for your ability and weight that way you're protected from both pre-releasing or twisting you knees.

 

[wa-loaf]

If you're worried about your knees, wear a brace and strengthen your quads. I'd stay within the manufacturer's setting for your ability and weight that way you're protected from both pre-releasing or twisting you knees.

If you really want to work on strengthening your knees work on your hamstrings. Strong hamstrings will help protect your ACL.

 

[skibum9995]

The chart setting for me is 6.5. That just doesn't work, especially in a rutted race course. I ski with my toe piece set to 10 and the heel to 11. The skis stay on through some pretty rough stuff, but still come off in the really nasty crashes where injury is more likely.

Earlier this season at MRG I had a boot/binding issue and had to rent skis, which were set at the chart recommendation and I think the would have stayed on better with duct tape. I prefer my skis to stay on to give me a chance to recover and ski away, without having to collect my gear.

 

[Mildcat]

Wow, you guys use some pretty high settings. I was doing some tests in my living room to see how much force it took to make the bindings release, and above a setting of about 4, I found my knees and achilles started complaining. I guess I must have weak ligaments, because I think if I set it to something like nine, there's no way those skis are coming off without me tearing a ligament.

When you guys decided to go above the chart, was it because you had skis come off unexpectedly? What kind of stuff made them release, just a normal high speed turn, or did you hit a rut or something unusual? I'm not sure how much margin of retention I should be shooting for beyond "normal" conditions.

Well I ski mostly blues and greens, make wide turns on groomers, and never twist my feet to turn, so probably I'm fairly safe going with below chart settings.

We need some more specific info here. You mention a din of 4 in your living room but 9 would be too high. That's a huge difference. :-o You haven't mentioned weight, height, skier type, age, or recommended din settings.

My bindings are set to the chart (8.5) although I have lost weight so I'm not sure now. I'm 5'6", 155#'s, 39 yo, type III skier. I'm far from an expert but I check type III because I ski that type of terrain. When I last had them set as a type II skier I would have the occasional faux pas where I felt I could recover but the binding would release. With the way the din is set now I'm confident it won't pre-release and I've never had a problem with it not releasing when I need it.

Also, be honest when you fill out the form. The shop doesn't know what type skier you are or how much you weigh. They can only go by the info you give.