Quiver

[2knees]

i'm not in agreement with that statement. I think you can be good at bumps but suck at other aspects or be very good at other aspects but suck in bumps. Its too black and white. and then there's the whole argument as to what is actually good mogul skiing. Do you have to have perfect world cup form to be considered an accomplished bump skier? I say no way, but many would argue that point. Its a fascinating argument i tell you. FASCINATING!!!!!

 

[2knees]

anyone who thinks its only the skier and has nothing to do with the ski is living in a bubble.

totally agreed. but i think, outside of just saying shaped skis are easier then 1980 era popsicle sticks, it really depends alot upon the skillset of a skier. In other words, i'm not sure the average skier has the skills to fully engage the technology built into the ski. obviously, huge differences in width or length are the exceptions, but that not skill set, thats like the difference between riding a tricycle and a harley.

Take a more advanced skier, and I think the above statement goes out the window as they are actually able to push a ski further and therefor able to discern the technological advantages and disadvantages of individual skis.

or its quite possible i'm talking out of my cornhole

 

[Grassi21]

totally agreed. but i think, outside of just saying shaped skis are easier then 1980 era popsicle sticks, it really depends alot upon the skillset of a skier. In other words, i'm not sure the average skier has the skills to fully engage the technology built into the ski. obviously, huge differences in width or length are the exceptions, but that not skill set, thats like the difference between riding a tricycle and a harley.

Take a more advanced skier, and I think the above statement goes out the window as they are actually able to push a ski further and therefor able to discern the technological advantages and disadvantages of individual skis.

or its quite possible i'm talking out of my cornhole

This...

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

So you think the ski makes the skier?

No but a good skier on modern gear is gonna ski better than on old fashioned gear..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I actually think we're all in agreement that it's both the skis and skier.

Except for maybe GSS.

I agree Mondy

 

[SkiDork]

i'm not in agreement with that statement. I think you can be good at bumps but suck at other aspects or be very good at other aspects but suck in bumps. Its too black and white. and then there's the whole argument as to what is actually good mogul skiing. Do you have to have perfect world cup form to be considered an accomplished bump skier? I say no way, but many would argue that point. Its a fascinating argument i tell you. FASCINATING!!!!!

Just ask any skier at SkiSundown. They'll clear it up for ya...

 

[2knees]

Just ask any skier at SkiSundown. They'll clear it up for ya...

sundown is for gapers.

 

[mondeo]

Do you have to have perfect world cup form to be considered an accomplished bump skier?

But are you talking Finnish, or Sun Valley, or ...

Oh, wait. That's for BMM's board.

Form is a means to an end. If you can get down a bump run in control and at speed, that's what counts. It's just that WC style tends to have a higher speed limit than old school.

There's a quote from Moseley where he talks about the difference between recreational and WC skiers. The gist of it is that the WC skiers are trying to find the best possible way to ski the bumps, so adopting their style to some degree will help recreational skiers get better. Doesn't mean that you need to be WC style to ski bumps well, it's just easier to get to the same point because it's been refined so much over the years.

 

[deadheadskier]

i'm not in agreement with that statement. I think you can be good at bumps but suck at other aspects or be very good at other aspects but suck in bumps. Its too black and white. and then there's the whole argument as to what is actually good mogul skiing. Do you have to have perfect world cup form to be considered an accomplished bump skier? I say no way, but many would argue that point. Its a fascinating argument i tell you. FASCINATING!!!!!

I for one do not care for the way bump skiing has 'evolved'. The competitors runs look far more similar and robotic today than back in the day.

 

[Geoff]

I was a way better skier when I was 25 skiing on skinny skis than I am at age 50 skiing on high tech shaped skis. The difference is that I can now ski with far less effort since the equipment does all the work. I still have some remnants of the 1970's unweighted turn in my style but it's nothing like when I was on 207 SL boards as my everyday ski.

 

[deadheadskier]

because it's been refined so much over the years.

growing up, I would have never thought I'd see the day that the words 'refined' and mogul skiing would be used in the same sentence.

Moguls used to be for the 'rebels'; the guys who found racing to be boring. Now competition bump skiing while impressive in terms of what they can do in the airs, is about all fitting into the same box.

I'm not so sure that I agree with things being 'refined' for speed if that's what you were saying. The way bumps are scored with 50% of the score being based on turns, I think the WC style is far more about aesthetics. The scoring system perhaps is part of the reason why people look so similar now. It's a point of reference to judge from. I bet Edgar Grospiron skied just as fast as the guys today. Maybe they should have speed be 50% and turns 25% and it would be a bit more interesting.


What mogul skiing needs is more Johnny Poach and less Dale Begg Smith.

 

[2knees]

What mogul skiing needs is more Johnny Poach and less Dale Begg Smith.

lets not get crazy now. :lol:

 

[mondeo]

Maybe they should have speed be 50% and turns 25% and it would be a bit more interesting.

I'd be up for that. The other thing that gets harped on a bit over on the mogul boards is how uniform the competition bump runs are nowadays, which probably goes to everyone looking the same. Throw some ugly bumps in a run, change up spacing to throw timing off, make it so courses are actually hard.

 

[Greg]

JP!

lets not get crazy now. :lol:

That, quite possibly, goes down as the Best Run of 2008-09. OMG. That is freakin' funny. :lol:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

lets not get crazy now. :lol:

FKNA..gotta bump that video for stoke....to the top!!!

 

[deadheadskier]

lets not get crazy now. :lol:

I stand by my position :lol:

 

[mondeo]

What mogul skiing needs is more Johnny Poach and less Dale Begg Smith.

I'll take DBS any day of the week. I can see calling for Wayne Wong or Glen Plake or Jim Moran or ..., but what JP does is essentially throw himself down a bump run. Yeah he stays up on Gunbarrel, but what happens when you go to a run you can't just straightline?

Part of it's what I grew up with - Moseley got me into the bumps, and he was one later guys of the group that brought in the smoother, full absorption and extension into the sport, along with guys like Supletsov and Brassard. The rebels when I was in high school were on snowboards.

One more quote...
"Everybody who's ever been to Squaw Valley has counted to 3 and hurled their body off the Palisades. Big Deal! What is a big deal is mogul skiing. You don't buy it, you don't fake it, it's real, it's alive."

 

[MR. evil]

That, quite possibly, goes down as the Best Run of 2008-09. OMG. That is freakin' funny. :lol:

I love that vid!

For me that run is tied with JP's run down Temptor on that POW night early in the season. The one where he started way back on the snow making whale, tucked on the flat, blew by us on the head wall screaming something funny, hucking over the first 3 or so rows of bumps, then unleashing JP POW explosions down the hill. That run was F'g awsome. I really wish someone got that on video.

 

[Trekchick]

Love the video!

I like how the thread has taken a turn to skills and specific technique and no longer has much to do with quivers.



I think the quote I posted before was posted by an instructor on EpicSki, though it sounds like something Plake would say.

I wonder how long until we see that quote as someone's signature.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'll take DBS any day of the week. I can see calling for Wayne Wong or Glen Plake or Jim Moran or ..., but what JP does is essentially throw himself down a bump run. Yeah he stays up on Gunbarrel, but what happens when you go to a run you can't just straightline?

Part of it's what I grew up with - Moseley got me into the bumps, and he was one later guys of the group that brought in the smoother, full absorption and extension into the sport, along with guys like Supletsov and Brassard. The rebels when I was in high school were on snowboards.

One more quote...
"Everybody who's ever been to Squaw Valley has counted to 3 and hurled their body off the Palisades. Big Deal! What is a big deal is mogul skiing. You don't buy it, you don't fake it, it's real, it's alive."

My comments are more about attitude than skill. Hot Dogging, Freestylin', throwing yourself down the mountain with reckless abandon. JP seems like a rebel. That's what bump skiing was when I was growing up. Bumps were for guys like Glen Plake and JP. I bet those two would kill it at the bar together.

I still love skiing bumps, but the whole attitude for competition has changed. The rebels are now all into park skiing or snowboarding as you said. I bet the founding fathers of hot dog skiing like Wayne Wong are completely bored by today's WC bumpers.

Here's a thought:

As you mentioned, get rid of seeding and bring it back to natural bumps, don't have standardized jumping 'zones', shrink down the landing zones, make it more like man vs. nature instead of man vs course. I suppose that's essentially what a free skiing competition is. The scoring would be a helluva a lot more arbitrary and there would be a lot of sore losers, but overall it would be much more entertaining than what goes on now.