Seeding Moguls VS. Terrain Parks VS. Man Made "Natural Terrain Features"

[Highway Star]

All this talk about seeding bumps makes me think......where do you draw the line with customizing the terrain at ski areas?

Obviously, there is trail cutting, glade thinning, grading, blasting of rock, cutting of traverses, etc to create a ski area. Then they make snow, move it around and groom it. Then, to add back some variety and challenge, they build terrain parks and seed bumps.

So, why couldn't you modify the terrain to make it more interesting, like creating man made faux natural terrain features?

Killington has a number of expert trails that have been cut super wide, then blasted to be featureless. Double Dipper seems to be the worst of these. Why not install man made "natural feaures", combine it with Big Dipper, and turn it into one huge freeskiing natural terrain zone. And blow fan gun snow on it???

Here is something I recently posted over on K-zone:

I would like to see them bury the snowmaking pipes under the canyon quad (while reducing the number of hydrants), remove the tower guns, run power and setup locations for fan guns on carts (or permanenty install about 8-10 of them on towers). It would take longer to blow snow on the trail, but it would be better snow and would open up the entire bowl as one continuous trail side to side. Then, they could install a variety of faux natural terrain features - ledges, rollovers, fake trees, windbreak walls with rail slides on top of them..........use your imagination. So it would be one giant terrain playground with good fan gun snow on a regular basis. I hesitate to call it a "natural terrain park", because that's what the stash is called and it's much more park than natural terrain. This concept would be more like man made natural terrain feaures....and it would be awesome.

What do you think?

 

[deadheadskier]

Some places already do it. Ragged has 3 'cliffs' in their terrain park ranging from about 8 feet to about 20.

 

[Highway Star]

Some places already do it. Ragged has 3 'cliffs' in their terrain park ranging from about 8 feet to about 20.

True....sort of. Mount Snow also has some sort of fake cliff drop, and the stash has lots of "natural terrain features"...........which are really just park features made out of wood.

What I'm talking about is artificially creating challenging freeskiing terrain features, to mimic some of the best expert trails in the east. Not in a park layout, and certainly not groomed.

 

[4aprice]

I think Highway Star has a point. I've always wondered why moguls weren't included in Terrain Parks or at least along side of them.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Highway Star]

I think Highway Star has a point. I've always wondered why moguls weren't included in Terrain Parks or at least along side of them.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

They should seed moguls into the landings of every jump. That would make things much more interesting.

 

[deadheadskier]

True....sort of. Mount Snow also has some sort of fake cliff drop, and the stash has lots of "natural terrain features"...........which are really just park features made out of wood.

What I'm talking about is artificially creating challenging freeskiing terrain features, to mimic some of the best expert trails in the east. Not in a park layout, and certainly not groomed.

Give an example of such challenging freeskiing terrain features.

The 'cliffs' at Ragged are essentially giant boulder walls. I'm not sure you'd be able to make an actual 20 foot 'cliff' in another manner due to the weight of moving such a rock.

 

[Highway Star]

Give an example of such challenging freeskiing terrain features.

The 'cliffs' at Ragged are essentially giant boulder walls. I'm not sure you'd be able to make an actual 20 foot 'cliff' in another manner due to the weight of moving such a rock.

Such as this:

.....a variety of faux natural terrain features - ledges, rollovers, fake trees, windbreak walls with rail slides on top of them..........use your imagination.

....I don't really know, so I threw this out here looking for ideas. Boulder walls are certainly a good start. How about concrete? With steel railslides? How do you make a durable fake tree?

I was thinking of a arc shaped fake cliff band (similar to the Devil's Fiddle)made out of concrete, about 20 ft in the middle, sloping down on the sides to about 5 ft at the ends, with a steep long landing all the way across. So you could work your way up to the bigger drop. Oh....and put some large diameter steel pipe rail slides off the smaller parts, diving board style. Obviously you would have to fence/mark off above it.......

So, some things like that.....got any ideas?

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe Disney will get into the ski business. :lol:

I have thought about excavating out sections of trails to make a 'cornice' before. Not sure how well that would work with run off.

Doubt I will be hitting the Ragged cliffs. Landings look rather flat.

 

[mondeo]

What I'm talking about is artificially creating challenging freeskiing terrain features, to mimic some of the best expert trails in the east. Not in a park layout, and certainly not groomed.

If they're just mimicing some of the best expert terrain in the East, wouldn't they just end up playing second fiddle?

 

[severine]

It may be the wine talking, but this is actually a good idea.

 

[2knees]

i think it's an awesome idea. they do this for mtn biking. look at all the features you find at nepaug and places like that.


Double Dipper sucks big balls anyway so its not like you'd be ruining a good trail.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think the Double Dipper catastrophe maybe the worst example of trail ruining in recorded history.

 

[Highway Star]

Are you listening, Killington?

Anybody have any other ideas for man made natural terrain features?

How do you make a fake tree or other wind block? Without constructing a huge wall?

 

[WWF-VT]

What's the point of "man made natural terrain features" ? If that's what you are looking for then ski Castlerock or MRG. Plenty of natural terrain features and natural snow.

 

[Highway Star]

What's the point of "man made natural terrain features" ? If that's what you are looking for then ski Castlerock or MRG. Plenty of natural terrain features and natural snow.

Or you could ski Devil's Fiddle.

Seriously though, you're missing the point. If they had never cut double dipper, they would have plenty of natural terrain tree skiing. But the fact is they did, a long time ago. It's played out. What could they do to make it more interesting? Well they could make some features on it to make it like natural freeskiing terrain - but even better in some ways.

 

[St. Bear]

What's the point of "man made natural terrain features" ? If that's what you are looking for then ski Castlerock or MRG. Plenty of natural terrain features and natural snow.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that they bomb Castlerock and build a fake terrain park. Sugarbush is lucky to have what they have, but I think it's an interesting idea for a smaller mountain, maybe one that doesn't have those kind of natural features and snowfall. Somewhere like Crotched, Pats Peak, Wachusett, or Sundown (if they can spare to lose a bump run).

It'll never happen for obvious cost reasons, but it's a fun idea to talk about (kind of like playoff for college football).

 

[Greg]

http://news.alpinezone.com/70382/

 

[2knees]

seems like their answer to the stash at killington.

 

[Highway Star]

http://news.alpinezone.com/70382/

It's a park regardless, but I'd be interested to know is they can get a groomer into it....