Professional Ski Instructors of America ?

[skimawk]

Hey Gang,

I know must of you do not use the services of ski schools when you hit the slopes. But I would like to get your opinion on PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America).

Do you think PSIA adds value to the guests at a ski area/resort?

Are you aware of the certification levels or process PSIA offers to ski instructors?

Look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy the rest of this great season and ski/ride to the level of your smile!!!!

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Hey Gang,

I know must of you do not use the services of ski schools when you hit the slopes. But I would like to get your opinion on PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America).

Do you think PSIA adds value to the guests at a ski area/resort?

Are you aware of the certification levels or process PSIA offers to ski instructors?

Look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy the rest of this great season and ski/ride to the level of your smile!!!!

I think it adds value because it keeps teaching techniques uniform from ski area to ski area. At least that is what I've been told.

I'm aware of the cert levels.

 

[dbking]

PSIA= Probably Stay Inside Anyway
or backwards....
Assholes In Stretch Pants.
Just kidding.

 

[ToddW]

First, let me say that I am a huge fan of ski instruction. I've traveled far to take 2 weeks of lessons this season in a mix of camp and private lesson formats from instructors whose skiing I wish to emulate.

Here are my answers to your two questions. Obviously they are my opinions based upon my experiences with PSIA and ski schools, not gospel truth.


Question 2. I have read all of the training and exam prep material from 3 PSIA divisions plus much CSIA training material, have watched C/PSIA videos, and have heard many personal stories of certification attempts, both successful and not.

Question 1. I see little to no value add for resort guests from PSIA.

This is partly because they cling to a narrow role as a certification agency -- we certify that on one day this instructor could ski a certain way. I've heard this narrow view espoused both by a former national officer and by PSIA-RM examiners and ed staff. This has next to nothing to do with students.

But even more because they remain stuck in the past teaching techniques that are descended from the old arlberg technique developed for wooden skis and leather boots. They're more dedicated to maintaining the status quo than evolving the mainstream introduction to the sport or allowing reform from within.

The most famous example of this reactionary element within PSIA occurred when shaped skis were becoming readily available. A PSIA alpine team member ("national demo team") with world cup racing experience and decades of race coaching experience tried to introduce more efficient techniques -- lower effort, higher performance, and easier on the knees -- that had been in the racing world for a long time and were now available to all recreational skiers on the "new" skis. Many members of PSIA benefited from his approach, but the entrenched powers squelched the activity. Eventually, he left the demo team, broke away, and started his own instructor certification program called PMTS. Today, students of his system with only few years of skiing experience regularly outski the majority of PSIA instructors on the slopes and many of them have far superior movement analysis abilities too. That could have been the future of PSIA -- much hard work was done to make it so -- but internal politics intervened... business as usual for PSIA top brass (top brass, not rank and file instructors who had no say in this or almost any other matter.) I've heard one long-time level 3 describe the PSIA organization as Tammany Hall!

The result is that many of the "modern gliding wedges" that I saw today as the corduroy was melting towards mashed potatoes sure looked like the old snowplow I was taught in 1980. Theory may say otherwise, but practice says no real change except maybe on hero snow.

Since restarting skiing about 4 years ago, I took about 10 classes from PSIA-affiliated ski schools. The truth is that I didn't know any better at first, and I wanted desperately to improve. Now I know that the best route to improve is to study from a skier whose skiing you wish to emulate, preferably one with significant coaching and racing experience. I've seen enough level 3's on snow whose skiing I would never wish to emulate, that I personally don't find value in their certification status. For example, today I watched a well-known level 3 trying to ski slalom turns by hurling his shoulders into the turn and letting his body follow .

I doubt these are the answers you were looking for, but at least they are honest, informed opinions. Thanks for your wishes for a great rest of this season. I will certainly do my best to finish the season in style. Let me close by wishing you a great rest of the season as well.

 

[Stache]

Disclaimer: I am a Ski Instructor who Passed the Associate Certified (now called Level 2) exam in 1986-1987 and continued to attend the required update clinics for 20 years.

...
I doubt these are the answers you were looking for, but at least they are honest, informed opinions. ....

At least you admit it is an opinion and we will only wonder how and where you got your information.

FACT is Harold is even more staunch in his "My way or you're outta here" attitude than what you accuse the old school PSIA of.

FACT is in almost every ski school I have taught at the best instructor was NOT a member of PSIA. However, many of the hung over high school kids who were only there for the free lift ticket were also NOT members of PSIA. Now, how does a student know before the lesson starts which one they wound up with?? And will they complain after the lesson to Ski School management or just go around saying the lessons are not worth it painting all the other instructors with the bad ink picked up from that one bad instructor?

PSIA Certification (as well as PMS) is a very lengthly and EXPENSIVE process for which the Instructor MAY get a $0.25/hr increase in the minimum wage (paid only for the hours they actually are teaching). In other words they don't get certified for the money but for the good of the sport and to improve their own skiing and teaching.

MY word of caution to anyone who is planning on taking a lesson is to DEMAND a CERTIFIED PRO or DEMAND your money back! This doesn't guarantee you will get the best, but it will guarantee you do not get the worst. This is where the PSIA fails their Instructor members, who are the PSIA customers, and where PSIA fails the skiing public also. They do not educate the public on the value of a Certified Pro.

Twenty years ago hourly Instructor salaries were two to three times minimum wage and the instructor got a good split of the private lesson price, so if you only got to teach two two hour lessons or one two hour lesson and one private you still made out better than the guy flipping burgers and you got to ski a good part of the day. Nowadays Instructor salaries are down to minimum wage and the instructors still only get their hourly rate for a Private. [IE: Of the $95 Jiminy Pimple charges the customer I see $8.60] you still are only paid for the class time you teach (not the waiting around time before every linup) and the mountains squeeze you into teaching as many hours as they can get out of you so that FREE lift ticket doesn't get very much personal ski time use.

Again, this is not a slam against any one mountain but rather an reflection on the way things are in the Northeast today. And yet the mountains wonder why they have a problem recruiting and retaining good ski instructors.

 

[campgottagopee]

Hey Gang,

I know must of you do not use the services of ski schools when you hit the slopes. But I would like to get your opinion on PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America).

Do you think PSIA adds value to the guests at a ski area/resort?

Are you aware of the certification levels or process PSIA offers to ski instructors?

Look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy the rest of this great season and ski/ride to the level of your smile!!!!

Yes, IMO, PSIA adds value to the guests in that at least they know the person teaching them has some level of ability both in skiing and teaching.

I'm aware of the cert levels

 

[ToddW]

... At least you admit it is an opinion and we will only wonder how and where you got your information.

FACT is Harold is even more staunch in his "My way or you're outta here" attitude than what you accuse the old school PSIA of....

1) If you really want to know the names of my PSIA sources, I'll discuss them via PM but I won't drag them into a public forum that is indexed by Google, Bing, and Yahoo. Let's not go there unless you have pressing need since I don't foresee any productive outcome.

2) Harald (with 2 A's) is staunch in his "best skiing possible" attitude. That's true. But he'd be the first person to adopt a more efficient, high performance technique change if it existed. He constantly studies the skiing of the world's top few elite skiers in minute detail for exactly this reason. This zeal to continually approach perfection does lead "his way" to be very close to "best skiing possible" so your confusion is understandable.

3) Perhaps I wasn't clear. Your word "accuse" is a strong word, but since you used it, I'll stick with it. I did not simply accuse "old school PSIA" of something. I accused current-day, March 2010, PSIA of exactly the same thing, and I doubt things will be any different 20 years from now. I gave an example from the '90s because it's the best known example.

4) PSIA was founded in a coup in 1961 against USSA at Iron Mountain. In my opinion, the best hope for professional ski instructors in the U.S. is to repeat this exercise, throw out the PSIA hierarchy, and establish a new grassroots organization. Next year is the 50th anniversary of the coup ... time to repeat history?

 

[jaywbigred]

I am aware of the certification levels (or, at least that there are levels), and that there is testing involved to reach different levels.

I do not see the value added. To me, a good skier is a good skier, and if they can teach me to ski better, I don't care what quality control they may or may not have subjected themselves to.

And I bet I could learn a ton from hungover highschool kids who are just in it for the free pass. Perhaps more than I could learn from a lot of more traditional instructors who are going to give me the same basic lesson (or some updated version thereof) that I've had since I graduated to the most advanced group at most mountains...

 

[billski]

From the resort's point of view, PSIA has important marketing value.
- all the competitors do it
- there are enough people who want to be instructors that you can force them to do it
- it adds one more level of professionalism to the operation
- it sets a standard they don't have to administer - it's done for them.
- it's easy

For the tekkies in the house, it's a lot like Microsoft (or pick your vender) certified engineer, or project manager cert. Yeah, ya passed the test, but delivery quality still varies from person to person. Yeah, there are plenty of capable folks who are not certified. Still, to be able to say, "The jaybigred resort has over 2,000 PSIA certified instructors" sounds good anyways. My company does it in their line of business (high tech.)

I am not debating the quality of the certifications; clearly they separate wheat from chaff. I'm looking at is solely from the resort point of value proposition.

 

[Highway Star]

I am here to post in this epic thread!

 

[Black Phantom]

PSIA??

Pretend Ski Instructors of America?

 

[Stache]

Probably Still Inside Arguing
Poor Skiers Immitating Austrians
Please Say I'm Awesome

The backward explanation "Assholes In Stretch Pants" is the funniest because my SSD actually mandated that I go out and buy stretch pants for my exam.

 

[dl]

Not sure of the point of the original questions - I'm assuming you're considering taking some lessons at some point. If that's the case, do your research before you get to the mountain (if possible). Ask friends that have taken lessons at the resort you're going to - who taught their lesson and did they like it/think it worthwhile? Ask the same questions in forums like this - can anyone recommend a teacher at resort x? Call the mountain and ask at the ski school desk - often the person at the desk will share the names of good instructors first. When asking the questions, make sure you share what you are looking for - i'm looking to carve better turns, hold better on icy slopes, ski bumps, race, etc - that will help figure out who is the right pro for you. Take PSIA out of the equation and find the right teacher for you and your skiing.

 

[zizou]

Hey Gang,

I know must of you do not use the services of ski schools when you hit the slopes. But I would like to get your opinion on PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America).

Do you think PSIA adds value to the guests at a ski area/resort?

Are you aware of the certification levels or process PSIA offers to ski instructors?

Look forward to what you have to say. Enjoy the rest of this great season and ski/ride to the level of your smile!!!!

Even though I am not an instructor I am very aware of the PSIA certification levels and process.

I think the most direct benefit to "end skiers" of the PSIA is a somewhat consistent curriculum. You can take a lesson in VT or CO and to some degree the instructors will (or should) use similar terminology and concepts. If you went to Canada or elsewhere you'd get a slightly different view.

Guests also benefit indirectly from the PSIA helping resorts with curriculum, instructor training, and ongoing education for instructors as well as the certification process.

 

[skizoo]

I think the most direct benefit to "end skiers" of the PSIA is a somewhat consistent curriculum. You can take a lesson in VT or CO and to some degree the instructors will (or should) use similar terminology and concepts.

I would have to disagree with the above statement, I think PSIA is totally lacking in consistency from one school to the next, even from one instructor to the next.