The Most Important Resort Improvement for the Summer of 2010

[HowieT2]

I still think Sugarbush needs to stop real estate development and start focusing on the on mountain experience, they are now at the back of the pack in terms of major resorts in VT, and are only falling further behind.

That being said, Gore's new development could potentially have the largest impact of all, I think they still need a lift to downtown North Creek to reach the top. That and way more snowmaking capacity.

The two new buildings they are erecting this summer are a huge improvement and there is no real estate development included in this phase. That being said, what about real estate development done right would be so bad?
what about the "on mountain experience" needs investment? snowmaking capacity?

 

[mikestaple]

Anything new on Ragged - are they going ahead on replacing that pokey Spear Mt Triple?

 

[Lostone]

I still think Sugarbush needs to stop real estate development and start focusing on the on mountain experience, they are now at the back of the pack in terms of major resorts in VT, and are only falling further behind.

The latest base development is not a real estate winner. It is improving facilities. There are no condos in it. Just an improvement in guest services.


As for being in the back of the pack, I'd say... Which pack? I ask people how their day was, throughout the season. Almost always the answer is great.

You can't please everyone, but I think their average is pretty good. ;-)

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Not a very well informed opinion for a guy who has said you have not skied at Sugarbush in a few years.

+1

 

[Tin Woodsman]

The two new buildings they are erecting this summer are a huge improvement and there is no real estate development included in this phase. That being said, what about real estate development done right would be so bad?
what about the "on mountain experience" needs investment? snowmaking capacity?

That's pretty much what he's on about regarding "on mountain experience". While the two new buildings are definitely higher priority IMO given the market Win is driving for, you know where I stand on the snowmaking issue. :angry::angry:

 

[Tin Woodsman]

NM: double post

 

[thetrailboss]

Gonna throw this out there: judging by the interest in here, I'd say that the Mittersill Chair Project, which has been a long time coming, is probably the most significant improvement this season. We're talking about the revitalization of one of the Northeast's oldest and most historic ski areas.

 

[AdironRider]

Bush homers wont phase me. Ive skied there plenty and from what win himself and others have posted, have a pretty good idea of what theyve improved and havent improved over the two seasons since I last skied there. I have my opinion, you have yours. But if makes you feel better to get all uppity, so be it.

I think they have poorer snow quality in times of duress, aka when it hasnt snowed in a week or so, or after a freeze thaw, or after an ice event, than most other VT resorts. Thats a sign of snowmaking, which IMO is what the market is looking for most these days given the economy. Im not talking about after they get a dump of their 250 annual inches, my backyard has great conditions when its actually snowing, who doesnt?

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Bush homers wont phase me. Ive skied there plenty and from what win himself and others have posted, have a pretty good idea of what theyve improved and havent improved over the two seasons since I last skied there. I have my opinion, you have yours. But if makes you feel better to get all uppity, so be it.

I think they have poorer snow quality in times of duress, aka when it hasnt snowed in a week or so, or after a freeze thaw, or after an ice event, than most other VT resorts. Thats a sign of snowmaking, which IMO is what the market is looking for most these days given the economy. Im not talking about after they get a dump of their 250 annual inches, my backyard has great conditions when its actually snowing, who doesnt?

Here we go again:

1) How is it that you don't understand that this year's improvements have nothing to so with real-estate? This point has been raised half a dozen times and you haven't addressed it even once. Are skier services not important in your world? Fixing what was a major problem for the resort doesn't mean they view snowmaking improvements as not being necessary, just a tick lower in priority than having a world-class facility for rentals, kids programs, ticketing, ski school and adventure programs.

2) The problem with the second half of your post is that, based on decades of observed data, it's "actually snowing" a LOT more at SB than your home mountain - about 40% more.

None of this is to say that SB doesn't have snowmaking deficiencies. I've spent far too much time here and on SkiMRV ranting on that very subject. That said, just about anyone who has the vaguest familiarity with SB would agree that the improvements going in this summer will move the needle in a much more impactful way than snowmaking improvements. Plus, you can't use EB-5 money for snowmaking improvements b/c there would be nothing for the investors to own.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Gonna throw this out there: judging by the interest in here, I'd say that the Mittersill Chair Project, which has been a long time coming, is probably the most significant improvement this season. We're talking about the revitalization of one of the Northeast's oldest and most historic ski areas.

Why not make a poll? I'd say the top 4 contenders are Mittersill, North Creek Ski Bowl at Gore (total game changer in the long run, IMO), Jay Peak base development,and the SB skier services bldgs. If it were up to me, I'd say Mittersill and Gore are neck and neck. Not sure where I'd come down on that.

 

[andrec10]

Hunter's new lift, by leaps and bounds.

I second, third and fourth that!!!:beer:

 

[whitefaceoscar]

Why not make a poll? I'd say the top 4 contenders are Mittersill, North Creek Ski Bowl at Gore (total game changer in the long run, IMO), Jay Peak base development,and the SB skier services bldgs. If it were up to me, I'd say Mittersill and Gore are neck and neck. Not sure where I'd come down on that.

i think it depends on which one is more succesfull by the start of next season, its up to them to make it work.

as andrec says, the new chair at hunter is big, but not as big as bringing back a new area from the dead

 

[AdironRider]

I have my opinion, you have yours.

I think with the economic climate we are in, skiers are starting to care more about on snow product, to the off snow glitz on base lodges et al. You disagree. Move along now.

 

[deadheadskier]

I have my opinion, you have yours.

I think with the economic climate we are in, skiers are starting to care more about on snow product, to the off snow glitz on base lodges et al. You disagree. Move along now.

I'd be interested in hearing input from win as to Sugarbush's skier visits over his ownership period. Numbers mean more than opinions.

One of the biggest complaints at Killington is their lack of adequate skier services facilities for lessons, rentals, etc. They blow a ton of snow.

Smuggs has horid snowmaking, yet the place is mobbed. Why? Excellent skier service facilities and slopeside lodging. That example alone would show what families care about.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I have my opinion, you have yours.

I think with the economic climate we are in, skiers are starting to care more about on snow product, to the off snow glitz on base lodges et al. You disagree. Move along now.

Awesome. Keep moving the goal posts. First the problem was the alleged focus on real-estate. Now that it has been pointed out that you are 100% factually incorrect regarding the current phase of their build out, you retreat to some nondescript "off snow glitz on base lodges" meme. Is that what it's come to for you? Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, shouldn't every resort be like Silverton with nothing more than a yurt at the base? Seeing as how your home mtn spent significant sums of money in the last three years on expanding the Kid's Kampus and adding a new parking lot, neither of which are relevant to the on-snow experience, it would be nice if you could be somewhat consistent in your approach.

If having a dedicated structure with an actual foundation (instead of a tent) for lessons, ticketing and kids programs represent "off-snow glitz" then I guess SB is guilty as charged. In the economic climate we're in, I think people want to feel like they are getting value for money, and it's hard to feel that way as a family of four if you're trooping around an ugly temporary village featuring large tents and double-wides. It would be helpful if your opinions were backed by even a small bit of factual support instead of provincial shit-stirring.

 

[AdironRider]

Get off your high horse. Sugarbush doesnt have tents, and Whiteface is no longer my home mountain.

As I said, move along now. But youre just that kid picking fights these days, so I suppose those words are uncomprehensible. Perhaps I should break out my thesaurus and maybe you'll understand.

 

[dmc]

Get off your high horse. Sugarbush doesnt have tents, and Whiteface is no longer my home mountain.

As I said, move along now. But youre just that kid picking fights these days, so I suppose those words are uncomprehensible. Perhaps I should break out my thesaurus and maybe you'll understand.

awesome....

Don't let the F'rs get ya down...

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Get off your high horse. Sugarbush doesnt have tents, and Whiteface is no longer my home mountain.

As ever, you are uninformed. This is what it is being replaced. It was the most spacious and modern structure within the interim village. Note the edge of the double wide trailer on the far left of the photo which served as the rentals building.

Here's a tip:

1) Get facts

then

2) Spew

The other way around doesn't help to advance your cause.

As I said, move along now. But youre just that kid picking fights these days, so I suppose those words are uncomprehensible. Perhaps I should break out my thesaurus and maybe you'll understand.

I'll let the irony of this particular sentence speak for itself.

 

[AdironRider]

Oh boy its the grammar police. License and registration please....

 

[deadheadskier]

AdironRider

You have to admit Tin has a point. Families spending $75 a ticket don't want to have to get their kids saddled up in rentals and ready for lessons in a trailer park and tent village. That's feeder hill facilities, not destination VT resort.

I can 100% see why Sugarbush has that upgrade at the top of their priority list.