Which Resorts Should be Included in New Condorcet Poll?

[skiersleft]

If you've been following the other condorcet poll thread, several of you - especially Rivercoil - pointed out many weaknesses and omissions in the twenty resorts selected for ranking.

Rivercoil suggested that we include every resort with over 500 vertical. That's probably too much for people to rank. I think we can narrow it down to 50 and then conduct a new poll. I want your help here to narrow it down to 50 resorts. Once we do so, I'll create a new Condorcet poll for us to rank the 50 resorts we selected.

Only Eastern resorts can be included, Canada included, but lets make this mostly about the Eastern US.

Here's my attempt at narrowing it down to 50 resorts. I ask for feedback. Tell me which ones should be taken out from the list and which omitted resorts should be in the list. Again, the goal is to have a list of 50, not more.

Here's my attempt at a list:


Connecticut (1)

 Ski Sundown - New Hartford

Maine (6)

 Big Squaw - Greenville
 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (2)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock

New Hampshire (12)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Crotched Mountain - Bennington
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (14)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Pennsylvania (4)

 Blue Mountain
 Camelback Ski Area - Tannersville
 Elk Mountain - Union Dale
 Seven Springs Mountain Resort - Seven Springs

West Virginia (1)

Snowshoe

Canada (3)

Eastern Townships
Le Massif
Mont Tremblant

 

[deadheadskier]

pretty good list. I think you can safely omit Crotched, but it really doesn't hurt having it in there. Throw Pat's Peak in there while you're at it.

I'd offer up Middlebury Snowbowl and Dartmouth Skiway as well. Not top 20, but they do have their fans.

 

[deadheadskier]

Canada I'd through in Mt. St. Anne, Orford, Owl's Head, Sutton and Bromont.

 

[skiersleft]

pretty good list. I think you can safely omit Crotched, but it really doesn't hurt having it in there. Throw Pat's Peak in there while you're at it.

I'd offer up Middlebury Snowbowl and Dartmouth Skiway as well. Not top 20, but they do have their fans.

OK. Will omit Crotched and include Pat's Peak.

Not sure about Middlebury and Dartmouth. The thing is I have to take out two resorts in order to include MIddlebury and Dartmouth if I want to keep it to 50 resorts max, which is the goal. Anyone else want them included?

 

[skiersleft]

Canada I'd through in Mt. St. Anne, Orford, Owl's Head, Sutton and Bromont.

Are these Eastern Townships resorts? If so, I lumped them together. Should I separate them?

 

[skiersleft]

Revised list after changes suggested by DHS

Connecticut (1)

 Ski Sundown - New Hartford

Maine (6)

 Big Squaw - Greenville
 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (2)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock

New Hampshire (12)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Pat's Peak
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (14)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Pennsylvania (4)

 Blue Mountain
 Camelback Ski Area - Tannersville
 Elk Mountain - Union Dale
 Seven Springs Mountain Resort - Seven Springs

West Virginia (1)

Snowshoe

Canada (3)

Eastern Townships
Le Massif
Mont Tremblant

 

[riverc0il]

Nice. Townships definitely need to be broken out between the four of them. Many good locations are now included. You can get rid of Squaw in Maine as it is no longer open. Should areas south of NY be included? If you have to remove some to add others, I'd go with those (sorry PA skiers ). If you are going as far north as Lassif, you might as well add MSA. Maybe just keep it to the USA? I suspect most AZ'ers will have limited experience north of the boarder. Maybe add Hickory to NY (I actually want to get down to Hickory at some point). Middlebury and Dartmouth are both in the 1000' vert arena and probably worth having on there. Pats and Crotched? I dunno. If you want to have those two, you might as well add in Wachusett.

 

[4aprice]

I think thats a pretty good list. A couple suggestions from me. As far as PA goes I would drop 7 Springs. Nothing against the place but to me its not the northeast.(same for Snowshoe, Holiday Valley) ( from my NYC metropolitan area POV, the northeast is the Pocono's north and east or 1-80 north). I also think Catamount and Butternut and Wachusett should be included . (where do you put Catamount NY or Mass?). Also would add West Mountain in NY (Plan on finding out about this place this season). Lke I said different strokes for different folks and that's just my opinon.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[mister moose]

I suspect most AZ'ers will have limited experience north of the boarder.

I actually have skied north of the boarder quite a bit. Sometimes I ski east or west of the boarder. On crowded days I often ski both east and west of the boarder. I try to avoid south of the boarder as that is the blind side. Luckily I haven't crossed the boarder yet.

 

[skiersleft]

Revised list after Rivercoil's suggestions. Want to keep top Canadian resorts if possible. Changes:

Dropped Squaw in Maine. Dropped PA ski areas and Snowshoe in WV. Now include the 4 Eastern Township areas individually. Added Mont St Anne in Canada as well.

Also added Darmouth Skiway and MIddlebury Snowbowl, as both Rivercoil and Deadheadskier believe they should be included.

Right now we have 50 ski areas. Would like to keep it at 50 or below.

Here's the updated List:

Connecticut (1)

 Ski Sundown - New Hartford

Maine (5)

 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (2)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock

New Hampshire (13)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Dartmouth Skiway
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Pat's Peak
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (15)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Middlebury Snow Bowl
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Canada (7)

Bromont
Le Massif
Mont Orford
Mont St Anne
Mont Sutton
Mont Tremblant
Owl's Head

 

[riverc0il]

I actually have skied north of the boarder quite a bit. Sometimes I ski east or west of the boarder. On crowded days I often ski both east and west of the boarder. I try to avoid south of the boarder as that is the blind side. Luckily I haven't crossed the boarder yet.

I was pretty sure someone was going to be contrary if I didn't put a more specific disclaimer on that comment. MOST AZ'ers probably have not gone north of the boarder to ski. You are not part of most in this case.

:beer:

 

[deadheadskier]

Nice. Townships definitely need to be broken out between the four of them. Many good locations are now included. You can get rid of Squaw in Maine as it is no longer open. Should areas south of NY be included? If you have to remove some to add others, I'd go with those (sorry PA skiers ). If you are going as far north as Lassif, you might as well add MSA. Maybe just keep it to the USA? I suspect most AZ'ers will have limited experience north of the boarder. Maybe add Hickory to NY (I actually want to get down to Hickory at some point). Middlebury and Dartmouth are both in the 1000' vert arena and probably worth having on there. Pats and Crotched? I dunno. If you want to have those two, you might as well add in Wachusett.

I actually have skied north of the boarder quite a bit. Sometimes I ski east or west of the boarder. On crowded days I often ski both east and west of the boarder. I try to avoid south of the boarder as that is the blind side. Luckily I haven't crossed the boarder yet.

I was pretty sure someone was going to be contrary if I didn't put a more specific disclaimer on that comment. MOST AZ'ers probably have not gone north of the boarder to ski. You are not part of most in this case.

:beer:

:lol:

 

[Ski the Moguls]

A good survey, in my opinion, would just let us list all the ski areas we have been to, in order of preference, and not force us to guess on places we have not been to. Then the fancy software would sort through the data and tell us the rankings. I mean, do you really want to know where I would rank Bromley or Waterville Valley when I have not been to those areas in about 30 years? Will your program work this way if we just rank, say, 30 unvisited areas as #50? Or will it unfairly ding those places as though we like the other 20 better?

 

[skiersleft]

A good survey, in my opinion, would just let us list all the ski areas we have been to, in order of preference, and not force us to guess on places we have not been to. Then the fancy software would sort through the data and tell us the rankings. I mean, do you really want to know where I would rank Bromley or Waterville Valley when I have not been to those areas in about 30 years? Will your program work this way if we just rank, say, 30 unvisited areas as #50? Or will it unfairly ding those places as though we like the other 20 better?

I understand your concern. It works well even if you rank the ones you haven't visited number 50. Trust me, it's much better than standard polling. You can read more about condorcet voting here:

http://www.google.com/search?&q=condorcet%20polling%20wiki

The options have to be the same for all, because if not you cannot meaningfully assess the relative rankings. Just vote on as many as possible and give rank 50 to the rest. The software will do it's magic and I'm pretty sure the final ranking will make sense.

:

 

[jaja111]

You've got Holiday Valley in NY and not Bristol (which is closer to the "northeast" and 1000' vert)?

Not that I care much as its not gonna get very many votes. Nor is anything west of Syracuse for that matter. Maybe the omission of HV will get you the fifty you need.

 

[Talisman]

I can't believe Ski Sundown is considered a "resort".

 

[skiersleft]

You've got Holiday Valley in NY and not Bristol (which is closer to the "northeast" and 1000' vert)?

Not that I care much as its not gonna get very many votes. Nor is anything west of Syracuse for that matter. Maybe the omission of HV will get you the fifty you need.

I hear you. This is the secnd time it is argued that perhaps Holiday Valley should not be included because it's not really in the Northeast. Does anyone object to dropping Holiday Valley? If we do, Bristol can take its place.

 

[skiersleft]

I can't believe Ski Sundown is considered a "resort".

Do you think it should be dropped form the list?

 

[wa-loaf]

Add Wachusett in MA and ditch Big Squaw in Maine. Big Squaw is pretty much NELSAP'd at this point.

 

[skiersleft]

Add Wachusett in MA and ditch Big Squaw in Maine. Big Squaw is pretty much NELSAP'd at this point.

Big Squaw was dropped pursuant to Rivercoil's request. I'll add Wachusett. I think this puts us at 51, which means that ideally we have to drop one resort from the list.