Which Resorts Should be Included in New Condorcet Poll?

[skiersleft]

Here's an updated list. Changes since first list was posted:

(1) PA ski resorts dropped.
(2) Snowshoe in WV dropped.
(3) The four Eastern Township resorts in Canada appear individually now.
(4) Mont St Anne in Canada added.
(5) Crotched dropped
(6) Big Squaw dropped
(7) Dartmouth Skiway added.
(8) Middlebury Snowbowl added
(9) Wachusett added.

Changes under consideration but not made:

(1) Dropping Holiday Valley
(2) Adding Bristol
(3) Dropping Sundown

Thoughts on the changes? Any other changes? List will be made final tomorrow.

Here's the last list:

Connecticut (1)

 Ski Sundown - New Hartford

Maine (5)

 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (3)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock
 Wachusett

New Hampshire (13)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Dartmouth Skiway
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Pat's Peak
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (15)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Middlebury Snow Bowl
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Canada (7)

Bromont
Le Massif
Mont Orford
Mont St Anne
Mont Sutton
Mont Tremblant
Owl's Head

 

[steamboat1]

Stoneham & Le Rollie north of Quebec City would be good additions to the survey.

Neither is as big as Massiff or St.Anne but both often have better snow being they are further away from the St. Lawrence with higher base elevations.

Yes I can vote, I've been to both several times.

 

[skiersleft]

Stoneham & Le Rollie north of Quebec City would be good additions to the survey.

Yes I can vote, I've been to both several times.

Thanks. Trying to keep it at 50 resorts. Would you drop two resorts from the current list to include those two Quebec resorts? And, if so, which?

 

[steamboat1]

Thanks. Trying to keep it at 50 resorts. Would you drop two resorts from the current list to include those two Quebec resorts? And, if so, which?

Lol...yes I would but I'm not getting into that argument.

 

[skiersleft]

Lol...yes I would but I'm not getting into that argument.

I hear you. Do others have any thoughts re Steamboat's suggestions?

 

[billski]

Weighted?

This looks quite over-weighted towards the new England states. If you look at the Massive state of NY, I could argue that most of the hills are regional targets.

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Look at your list. Certainly the biggies count. But why did you pick Holiday valley (WNY)? Cripes, it's 750 feet. But if you're in hill-deprived western NY and Ohio, you'd love HV. They would also say the same about Bristol WNY), Greek Peak (CNY), Titus (NNY) and Warp's back yard ;-) Scratch that last one. :grin:

So I'm scratching my head,
What is your target audience? loosely fit "northeast"? Look at the friggin' number of NY hills:
http://skiing.alpinezone.com/resorts/?state=NY

 

[skiersleft]

This looks quite over-weighted towards the new England states. If you look at the Massive state of NY, I could argue that most of the hills are regional targets.

NEW YORK (7)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Holiday Valley Ski Resort - Ellicottville[disambiguation needed]
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Look at your list. Certainly the biggies count. But why did you pick Holiday valley (WNY)? Cripes, it's 750 feet. But if you're in hill-deprived western NY and Ohio, you'd love HV. They would also say the same about Bristol WNY), Greek Peak (CNY), Titus (NNY) and Warp's back yard ;-) Scratch that last one. :grin:

So I'm scratching my head,
What is your target audience? loosely fit "northeast"? Look at the friggin' number of NY hills:
http://skiing.alpinezone.com/resorts/?state=NY

What's your suggestion? Think we should eliminate NY resorts, add NY resorts? Give me a specific suggestion and we'll do it.

As to why I picked Holiday Valley, because it's a resort destination for some. Although vertically challenged, it's horizontally fine and Elicotville has a reputation of being a cool ski town.

Several here have argued it's not really Northeast. I have no problem with dropping it from the list. Do you also think it should be dropped? What others would you drop/add?

 

[billski]

We seem to be weighted heavily to New England. If that's so, then keep it that way, but be clear why you are doing that. Are you clear it's about destinations? I didn't see the other thread. HV just strkes me as an outlying area.

Other than idiots like myself who try to ski them all, you're going to find most folks have a limited set of destination and will inevitable pick those. Even within the heart of ski country, there are those who only hit a few areas. Ever. I'm simply not sure your survey will be statistically valid. It seems akin to the Snow East survey. Something to argue about. I must be missing something here.

 

[skiersleft]

We seem to be weighted heavily to New England. If that's so, then keep it that way, but be clear why you are doing that. Are you clear it's about destinations? I didn't see the other thread. HV just strkes me as an outlying area.

Other than idiots like myself who try to ski them all, you're going to find most folks have a limited set of destination and will inevitable pick those. Even within the heart of ski country, there are those who only hit a few areas. Ever. I'm simply not sure your survey will be statistically valid. It seems akin to the Snow East survey. Something to argue about. I must be missing something here.

You will see the history of the list in the other thread. We're trying to be as inclusive as possible. I'm going to eliminate Holiday Valley.

What will make this different from the Snow East Survey? First, not all ski areas are listed here. No PA areas, for example. Second, you will have to rank as many ski areas as possible. The ranking of ski areas allows the condorcet algorithm to pit each ski area against each other in a round robin way, producing outcomes that are much more statistically valid than what you get with your run of the mill reader survey. I think that's what you're missing. The Condorcet method is by far the best one for polling. Ski Magazine reader surveys do not employ that method.

If you're interested, you can read more about the condorcet method here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method#Condorcet_ranking_methods

 

[skiersleft]

Updated List. Additional change, Holiday Valley dropped.

Connecticut (1)

 Ski Sundown - New Hartford

Maine (5)

 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (3)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock
 Wachusett

New Hampshire (13)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Dartmouth Skiway
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Pat's Peak
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (15)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Middlebury Snow Bowl
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (6)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Canada (7)

Bromont
Le Massif
Mont Orford
Mont St Anne
Mont Sutton
Mont Tremblant
Owl's Head

 

[x10003q]

I can't believe Ski Sundown is considered a "resort".

No response?
At 625 vertical feet it is a local hill. Mohwk is 575 vertical feet. Why not include Mohawk too?

Neither should be included.

 

[skiersleft]

No response?
At 625 vertical feet it is a local hill. Mohwk is 575 vertical feet. Why not include Mohawk too?

Neither should be included.

Second person to suggest this. Sundown will be removed. Updated list tomorrow. Will have final list ready tomorrow afternoon so we can start ranking tomorrow night.

 

[deadheadskier]

:lol:

 

[Ski the Moguls]

What's your suggestion? Think we should eliminate NY resorts, add NY resorts? Give me a specific suggestion and we'll do it.

As to why I picked Holiday Valley, because it's a resort destination for some. Although vertically challenged, it's horizontally fine and Elicotville has a reputation of being a cool ski town.

Several here have argued it's not really Northeast. I have no problem with dropping it from the list. Do you also think it should be dropped? What others would you drop/add?

I would keep Holiday Valley as it usually appears on Ski magazine's top 20 eastern resorts list. I never understood why, and would like to see where it appears on your list.

 

[riverc0il]

I think even the Sundown folks wouldn't put their local mountain up against even most mid-sized mountains in northern New England. I know it is GREAT for the CT guys to have a local mountain on a cheap season pass and to be able to bash bumps whenever they want. But it doesn't make the mountain great, it makes it convenient.

 

[skiersleft]

Updated list. Latest change is that Sundown was dropped. Holiday Valley was taken off the list last night, although I think I agree with Ski the Moguls that it would be interesting to see where it ranks, as it always makes Ski Magazine's top 20. Right now we have narrowed it down to 49 ski areas. If no other candidate comes up for spot #50, I feel inclined to include Holiday Valley again.

Seems that we have mostly settled on the resorts. Will keep accepting suggestions until mid afternoon today so that we can have a final list and start voting tonight.


Maine (5)

 Mount Abram - Greenwood
 Saddleback Maine - Rangeley
 Shawnee Peak - Bridgton
 Sugarloaf - Carrabassett Valley
 Sunday River - Newry

Massachusetts (3)


 Berkshire East Ski Resort - Charlemont
 Jiminy Peak - Hancock
 Wachusett

New Hampshire (13)


 Attitash Bear Peak - Bartlett
 Black Mountain - Jackson
 Bretton Woods - Bretton Woods
 Cannon Mountain - Franconia Notch
 Cranmore Mountain Resort - North Conway
 Dartmouth Skiway
 Gunstock Mountain Resort - Gilford
 Loon Mountain - Lincoln
 Mount Sunapee Resort - Sunapee
 Pat's Peak
 Ragged Mountain - Danbury
 Waterville Valley Resort - Waterville Valley
 Wildcat Mountain - Pinkham Notch

Vermont (15)

 Bolton Valley Resort - Bolton Valley
 Bromley Mountain - Manchester Center
 Burke Mountain - East Burke
 Jay Peak Resort - Jay
 Killington Ski Resort - Killington
 Mad River Glen - Fayston (ski only)
 Magic Mountain - Londonderry
 Middlebury Snow Bowl
 Mount Snow - West Dover
 Okemo Mountain - Ludlow
 Pico Mountain - Killington
 Smugglers' Notch - Jeffersonville
 Stowe Mountain Resort - Stowe
 Stratton Mountain Resort - Stratton Mountain
 Sugarbush Resort - Warren

NEW YORK (6)

 Belleayre Mountain - Highmount
 Gore Mountain - North Creek
 Hunter Mountain - Hunter[disambiguation needed]
 Plattekill Mountain - Roxbury
 Whiteface Mountain - Wilmington
 Windham Mountain - Windham

Canada (7)

Bromont
Le Massif
Mont Orford
Mont St Anne
Mont Sutton
Mont Tremblant
Owl's Head

 

[jaja111]

I would keep Holiday Valley as it usually appears on Ski magazine's top 20 eastern resorts list. I never understood why, and would like to see where it appears on your list.

It ranks there because of its revenue. It serves a very large population area that either uses it for night skiing on weekdays, or can't bear to make a 7-10 hour drive to VT from Ohio so they spend the weekend 4-5 hours away at HV. There doesn't have to be any hills with 1000-2000 ft of vert to get people addicted, and when they're addicted they're not going to blow their budget on one single ski trip to the Northeast or even out West for that matter. There are a LOT of people that ski HV, but a LOT of those people would rank nearly any larger hill in the northeast as better. HV is just a necessity to the geography and demographics way way way out here for anyone that likes to ski daily, weekly, or monthly. Same goes for Bristol, Greek Peak, Titus, Labrador, Toggenburg, Kissing Bridge, Brantling, Swain, Peek & Peak, etc. etc. west of the 'Dacks.

 

[Nick]

Man I am away for the weekend and I have no idea what is happening around here :lol:

 

[skiersleft]

Man I am away for the weekend and I have no idea what is happening around here :lol:

Any suggestions as to the resorts on the list, Nick? Was wondering where you were at while the list was being compiled.

 

[bigbog]

For their "worth", I definitely would add Wachusett, and probably if I'd ever get to it...Burke. Those smaller mountains with enough pitch in places...one can develop a good amount of the skills needed.