What the heck is going on at Magic?

[Sorcerer]

Been like that for most since the 60's. Must be a reason?

When Magic was sold in the late 80s and combined with Timber Ridge, It was packed (Green Beginner, Black, Red, Poma Triple and 2 chairs on Timberside. They did a lot of advertising/Markrting that you don't see anymore.

 

[Do Work]

Brainwashed into believing that Northern VT is way better than So VT. While I agree Northern is more consistent but So VT can get the goods and Magic's terrain is not like the rest of So VT.

Some people really need to go someplace their water cooler peeps have heard of to feel like they actually did something cool.

I love MRG, Smuggs and Jay but the drive and all the people burn me out. I'd rather ski steep untracked trees at Magic for days after a storm personally. To each his own though!


Nice Jab Steamy. Good to see you're still as butthurt as ever haha

 

[doublediamond]

The Poma Triple was in the exact same spot as the Green/Phoenix. The Green/Phoenix uses the Poma's tower's reinforced foundations.

Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.

The Sun Corner Triple was completely ripped down and sold to Berkshire East while Magic was closed in the mid-90s. The current half-built lift is the former Betwixt Double from Stratton which last ran in 1995. It's been rusting away for 20 years without any maintenance. It is an old Borvig with the archaic hanging-sheave design. The same design that failed on the Spillway lifts at Sugarloaf. Very few remain these days. SOURCE. Multiple towers were put in incorrectly and are out of alignment. This is from Rocket/Threecee himself, a very reliable source with this kind of information. Hate his politics all we want, but he is invaluable with his informatin/data on the history of operating ski areas and lift movements over the years. If it has the same footings, why are multiple towers out of alignment?!? The drive terminal was installed in 2006 and has been uncovered the 9 years since. It will cost a lot more than $250k to finish it.

I assume you're getting that $250k from the Magic financial documents? Everything that Jim has said during his tenure about snowmaking updates around the mountain or what was written in the shareholder information was pure utter bullshit designed to sell the shares. At this point, I no longer believe anything he ever said about anything. Every year was "oh look, we're fixing X, Y, and Z pipes and we're gonna make snow on them". Then no snowmaking there and the next summer he was all "oh well sorry, we didn't get to finish fixing X, Y and Z. Here look, we're fixing X, Y, and AA this summer. I promise we'll make snow there this year. Please give us money."

Seriously, the only thing the half-built lift is useful for these days is scrap. Take a plasma torch, fell the towers, drag them down off the hill, and sell the metal off for scrap. It's a piece of junk.

Same thing with Black. It's a 53-year-old lift built by a one-off company and later updated 30 years ago this fall on the cheap to increase capacity by a firm no longer in business. It wasn't maintained for over 7 years. The towers are undersized. It hasn't passed inspection in how many years? Chairs were removed from the line. When was the last time it ran at it's full capacity? When was the last time it past inspection on it's first try? Year after year it's "we're fixing Black, it'll run" then when winter rolls around it's "ah sorry, inspector said XYZ needs fixing. We're working on it, and will get it to run." Then it fails again. It too needs to go to scrap. Sell it, get the few thousand, and buy electric compressors or more efficient guns. Anyone who think's it's worth it to piss more money at that rust bucket is delusional. And I and nearly everyone else believes it when someone claims an inspector told them they don't think it will ever pass.

Are you the same Sorcerer who was banned over at Snowjournal? The age of your handle is about right. That's when Jim took over Magic.

You want to know the #1 way to get more people to ski at Magic? Tear down the half bult lift and the rusting away Black. They are sores and they give the John Q. Public a bad/uneasy taste in their mouths. Have a actual learning center with a magic carpet. And make snow and have 3 routes available. Until then you won't get people to buy passes. It takes money to make money. Why has no operator ever invested in the ski area? A couple million will be returned in a couple years.

 

[Do Work]

Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.

The Sun Corner Triple was completely ripped down and sold to Berkshire East while Magic was closed in the mid-90s. The current half-built lift is the former Betwixt Double from Stratton which last ran in 1995. It's been rusting away for 20 years without any maintenance. It is an old Borvig with the archaic hanging-sheave design. The same design that failed on the Spillway lifts at Sugarloaf. Very few remain these days. SOURCE. Multiple towers were put in incorrectly and are out of alignment. This is from Rocket/Threecee himself, a very reliable source with this kind of information. Hate his politics all we want, but he is invaluable with his informatin/data on the history of operating ski areas and lift movements over the years. If it has the same footings, why are multiple towers out of alignment?!? The drive terminal was installed in 2006 and has been uncovered the 9 years since. It will cost a lot more than $250k to finish it.

I assume you're getting that $250k from the Magic financial documents? Everything that Jim has said during his tenure about snowmaking updates around the mountain or what was written in the shareholder information was pure utter bullshit designed to sell the shares. At this point, I no longer believe anything he ever said about anything. Every year was "oh look, we're fixing X, Y, and Z pipes and we're gonna make snow on them". Then no snowmaking there and the next summer he was all "oh well sorry, we didn't get to finish fixing X, Y and Z. Here look, we're fixing X, Y, and AA this summer. I promise we'll make snow there this year. Please give us money."

Seriously, the only thing the half-built lift is useful for these days is scrap. Take a plasma torch, fell the towers, drag them down off the hill, and sell the metal off for scrap. It's a piece of junk.

Same thing with Black. It's a 53-year-old lift built by a one-off company and later updated 30 years ago this fall on the cheap to increase capacity by a firm no longer in business. It wasn't maintained for over 7 years. The towers are undersized. It hasn't passed inspection in how many years? Chairs were removed from the line. When was the last time it ran at it's full capacity? When was the last time it past inspection on it's first try? Year after year it's "we're fixing Black, it'll run" then when winter rolls around it's "ah sorry, inspector said XYZ needs fixing. We're working on it, and will get it to run." Then it fails again. It too needs to go to scrap. Sell it, get the few thousand, and buy electric compressors or more efficient guns. Anyone who think's it's worth it to piss more money at that rust bucket is delusional. And I and nearly everyone else believes it when someone claims an inspector told them they don't think it will ever pass.

Are you the same Sorcerer who was banned over at Snowjournal? The age of your handle is about right. That's when Jim took over Magic.

I believe all of that with Green but the Black chair will work just fine until we can figure out what to do next. It passed two seasons ago just fine and is well on it's way to doing it again.

 

[doublediamond]

Do Work, are you affiliated with Magic somehow? If so maybe you can shed light on Black. Because to me as someone who has skied Magic just a couple times and an avid reader (but less-active of a poster) of various ski forums, it seems to me exactly as I stated. What needs to be fixed? Will it run at full capacity? Will the towers be painted to prevent more rust from forming?

 

[Sorcerer]

Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.

The Sun Corner Triple was completely ripped down and sold to Berkshire East while Magic was closed in the mid-90s. The current half-built lift is the former Betwixt Double from Stratton which last ran in 1995. It's been rusting away for 20 years without any maintenance. It is an old Borvig with the archaic hanging-sheave design. The same design that failed on the Spillway lifts at Sugarloaf. Very few remain these days. SOURCE. Multiple towers were put in incorrectly and are out of alignment. This is from Rocket/Threecee himself, a very reliable source with this kind of information. Hate his politics all we want, but he is invaluable with his informatin/data on the history of operating ski areas and lift movements over the years. If it has the same footings, why are multiple towers out of alignment?!? The drive terminal was installed in 2006 and has been uncovered the 9 years since. It will cost a lot more than $250k to finish it.

I assume you're getting that $250k from the Magic financial documents? Everything that Jim has said during his tenure about snowmaking updates around the mountain or what was written in the shareholder information was pure utter bullshit designed to sell the shares. At this point, I no longer believe anything he ever said about anything. Every year was "oh look, we're fixing X, Y, and Z pipes and we're gonna make snow on them". Then no snowmaking there and the next summer he was all "oh well sorry, we didn't get to finish fixing X, Y and Z. Here look, we're fixing X, Y, and AA this summer. I promise we'll make snow there this year. Please give us money."

Seriously, the only thing the half-built lift is useful for these days is scrap. Take a plasma torch, fell the towers, drag them down off the hill, and sell the metal off for scrap. It's a piece of junk.

Same thing with Black. It's a 53-year-old lift built by a one-off company and later updated 30 years ago this fall on the cheap to increase capacity by a firm no longer in business. It wasn't maintained for over 7 years. The towers are undersized. It hasn't passed inspection in how many years? Chairs were removed from the line. When was the last time it ran at it's full capacity? When was the last time it past inspection on it's first try? Year after year it's "we're fixing Black, it'll run" then when winter rolls around it's "ah sorry, inspector said XYZ needs fixing. We're working on it, and will get it to run." Then it fails again. It too needs to go to scrap. Sell it, get the few thousand, and buy electric compressors or more efficient guns. Anyone who think's it's worth it to piss more money at that rust bucket is delusional. And I and nearly everyone else believes it when someone claims an inspector told them they don't think it will ever pass.

Are you the same Sorcerer who was banned over at Snowjournal? The age of your handle is about right. That's when Jim took over Magic.

You want to know the #1 way to get more people to ski at Magic? Tear down the half bult lift and the rusting away Black. They are sores and they give the John Q. Public a bad/uneasy taste in their mouths. Have a actual learning center with a magic carpet. And make snow and have 3 routes available. Until then you won't get people to buy passes. It takes money to make money. Why has no operator ever invested in the ski area? A couple million will be returned in a couple years.

What I said is a fact. When the triple was sold, the tower foundations remained - kind of hard to sell them. When it was decided to put another lift where the triple was, new concrete was put over the old foundations and new bolts? (or whatever you call them) were drilled into them to hold the towers and the towers were installed on them.

I would do a lot of things, including putting a new lift somewhere else, before I wouldn't install a lift in that location.

As to the rest of your comments, I guess you were just venting. I don't know where they came from or how they apply to what I said.

I am not the other Sorcerer and don't have the foggiest who that is.

 

[Do Work]

Do Work, are you affiliated with Magic somehow? If so maybe you can shed light on Black. Because to me as someone who has skied Magic just a couple times and an avid reader (but less-active of a poster) of various ski forums, it seems to me exactly as I stated. What needs to be fixed? Will it run at full capacity? Will the towers be painted to prevent more rust from forming?

*seems* to be exactly as you stated? Lol

I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops. Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects. Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed. The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions. Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted. All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced. When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys. Seriously. You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why. The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past. Please put your aggressive attitude there too. We are all moving forward and working hard.


So please, lose the passive aggressive tone, man. I'll gladly do my best to answer any questions you may have but I don't get paid for this so lose the attitude. I'm not Jim Sullivan and I'm not into anything but hard work and progress. Internet keyboard jockeys are a dime a dozen and I could just as easily ignore you if you can't address me like a person instead of your dog.

 

[slatham]

Yes, Black worked fine a few seasons ago and for a time was the only summit lift running! As I mentioned in my post, the $250k came from JLS but I have no idea if it was made up or not. Regardless they need a new analysis and quote to finish Green. But I am sure that's down the priority list after getting Black running and snowmaking fixed.

 

[dlague]

It's about 5 hrs but that's not to bad , maybe this year . Hours operation ? Weekends and powder days ?

*seems* to be exactly as you stated? Lol

I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops. Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects. Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed. The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions. Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted. All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced. When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys. Seriously. You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why. The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past. Please put your aggressive attitude there too. We are all moving forward and working hard.


So please, lose the passive aggressive tone, man. I'll gladly do my best to answer any questions you may have but I don't get paid for this so lose the attitude. I'm not Jim Sullivan and I'm not into anything but hard work and progress. Internet keyboard jockeys are a dime a dozen and I could just as easily ignore you if you can't address me like a person instead of your dog.

That's cool!

 

[dlague]

Yes, Black worked fine a few seasons ago and for a time was the only summit lift running! As I mentioned in my post, the $250k came from JLS but I have no idea if it was made up or not. Regardless they need a new analysis and quote to finish Green. But I am sure that's down the priority list after getting Black running and snowmaking fixed.

We have skied there the past two years. The first year only black was running. Last year only red was running. Would be nice to have both running. Each time we have been there lift lines have been long. That being said, I understand why people might want to consider larger ski areas with more lift options since many are not into hanging out in lift lines. Unfortunately, Magic does have great terrain but falls short when only one lift is running.

 

[MMP]

*seems* to be exactly as you stated? Lol

I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops. Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects. Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed. The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions. Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted. All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced. When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys. Seriously. You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why. The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past. Please put your aggressive attitude there too. We are all moving forward and working hard.


So please, lose the passive aggressive tone, man. I'll gladly do my best to answer any questions you may have but I don't get paid for this so lose the attitude. I'm not Jim Sullivan and I'm not into anything but hard work and progress. Internet keyboard jockeys are a dime a dozen and I could just as easily ignore you if you can't address me like a person instead of your dog.

He can treat you anyway he wants, abuse a dog? This guy ABUSES DOGS???!!?? Wtf???

There's some negativity you Nancies can grab hold of.

 

[BodhiMax]

Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.


"You want to know the #1 way to get more people to ski at Magic? Tear down the half bult lift and the rusting away Black. They are sores and they give the John Q. Public a bad/uneasy taste in their mouths. Have a actual learning center with a magic carpet. And make snow and have 3 routes available."

Completely agree, but I think to really make Magic sustainable, the Black lift needs to be replaced by something newer - one lift to the top is not enough (as evidenced by long lift lines many weekends last winter). I really enjoy skiing at Magic, especially when conditions are right, and have brought various friends and family members to Magic. Their reaction is always the same -- Love the terrain and the vibe but the old lifts and overall appearance of the place are a bit unnerving.

I appreciate the info being provided by Do Work and the volunteer efforts of all who keep things going at Magic. I previously posted a note of concern about whether this new ownership group really has the money to do the right thing, which seemed to be interpreted by some as unwarranted criticism and speculation. But, unless and until this new ownership group closes the deal and announces some real investments in the mountain, I will continue to speculate and apply a healthy dose of skepticism. The winter season is rapidly approaching. The fact that the deal still hasn't closed and there has been no announcement about substantial upgrades leads me to the conclusion that not much is really changing at Magic. If they're going to open for the winter and at least get Black running again, that's better than nothing. For the long term sustainability of the mountain, though, I'm hoping new ownership is in a financial position to do a lot more than that.

 

[yeggous]

Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.


"You want to know the #1 way to get more people to ski at Magic? Tear down the half bult lift and the rusting away Black. They are sores and they give the John Q. Public a bad/uneasy taste in their mouths. Have a actual learning center with a magic carpet. And make snow and have 3 routes available."

Completely agree, but I think to really make Magic sustainable, the Black lift needs to be replaced by something newer - one lift to the top is not enough (as evidenced by long lift lines many weekends last winter). I really enjoy skiing at Magic, especially when conditions are right, and have brought various friends and family members to Magic. Their reaction is always the same -- Love the terrain and the vibe but the old lifts and overall appearance of the place are a bit unnerving.

I appreciate the info being provided by Do Work and the volunteer efforts of all who keep things going at Magic. I previously posted a note of concern about whether this new ownership group really has the money to do the right thing, which seemed to be interpreted by some as unwarranted criticism and speculation. But, unless and until this new ownership group closes the deal and announces some real investments in the mountain, I will continue to speculate and apply a healthy dose of skepticism. The winter season is rapidly approaching. The fact that the deal still hasn't closed and there has been no announcement about substantial upgrades leads me to the conclusion that not much is really changing at Magic. If they're going to open for the winter and at least get Black running again, that's better than nothing. For the long term sustainability of the mountain, though, I'm hoping new ownership is in a financial position to do a lot more than that.

I skied Magic for the first time last year had got similar impressions. The Black lift was just plain scary looking. From my perspective and experience it seems like the best thing that could happen to Magic is to be bought out by a big resort operator. Imagine what would happen if the owners of one of the other Southern Vermont mountain bought it out. They could justify the expense of bring the infrastructure somewhat up to date. Magic would be an advertised add-on to promote pass sales and visits to their main attraction. This is what Peaks did when purchasing Wildcat and functionally merging it with Attitash. You could make the same case about Pico and Killington.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Do Work]

I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...

I get the speculation but come on guys- You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month. What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in? I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is. You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure. Riiiiiiiiight. Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow... Just wow.

 

[steamboat1]

Consider yourself lucky that Highway Star doesn't ski there.

 

[jrmagic]

FOmmzzzhzhzhhzmxg

 

[BodhiMax]

I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...

I get the speculation but come on guys- You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month. What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in? I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is. You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure. Riiiiiiiiight. Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow... Just wow.

DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic. And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen. But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure. Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row. And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain. Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned? If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.

 

[deadheadskier]

DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic. And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.

Worst idea ever. What do you want? Another Stratton?

 

[Sorcerer]

DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic. And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen. But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure. Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row. And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain. Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned? If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.

The reason (I believe based upon what I know about these legal type transactions-no one told me) there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned is because a contract has not been signed yet although as I understand it it could be done in a week or two. Pray for it and snow.

 

[marcski]

DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic. And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen. But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure. Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row. And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain. Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned? If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.

I think you should stay at Flatton or Slokemo. You don't seem to be Magic's intended market. This idea of yours would ruin Magic's appeal for most who ski there.