The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Hawk]

I have been watching the snow stake at Stowe and there are many people online talking about this year. Stowe is having a record November right now. They have nearly 3 feet of snow at the stake. You can't compare Sugarbush to them at all. Just look at the cams at the base there is only a few inches. Most storms we have had have been very elevation dependent.

 

[Getskied]

Communication, lack thereof, is all on local management and it starts at the top with Hammond. I'm sure the marketing dept would love to be hyping things up but he has decided that it is best to operate in secrecy and keep everyone in suspense.

On the flip side, if the lack of communication encourages more IKON pass holders to stop at Stratton or Killington instead then I’m all for it. I just wish SB would turn all the cams back on.

 

[tumbler]

The cameras are funny, turn them off so no one can see what we are doing. They must not like the armchair quarterbacking on here

 

[cdskier]

On the flip side, if the lack of communication encourages more IKON pass holders to stop at Stratton or Killington instead then I’m all for it. I just wish SB would turn all the cams back on.

Yea...I'm not against that scenario either. Although it could also have a spiral effect. Less people could lead Alterra to lower their priority of SB and reduce spending. Which in turn leads to less people. While I'm sure us regulars would not complain about less people, very few of us would be happy with less investment.

 

[Hawk]

It's smelly at best. It shows that they don't want you to see that they are having issues. What's worse is that they don't tell you.

 

[vtski802]

I have been watching the snow stake at Stowe and there are many people online talking about this year. Stowe is having a record November right now. They have nearly 3 feet of snow at the stake. You can't compare Sugarbush to them at all. Just look at the cams at the base there is only a few inches. Most storms we have had have been very elevation dependent.

Did ya miss the part where I fully acknowledged the difference in natural snowfall between Sugarbush and Stowe??

 

[vtski802]

On the flip side, if the lack of communication encourages more IKON pass holders to stop at Stratton or Killington instead then I’m all for it. I just wish SB would turn all the cams back on.

Advocating for less skier visits (Sugarbush's primary revenue stream) is wild.

 

[Hawk]

I did see what said. I was just pointing out that the difference is huge to the general community.
BTW I totally advocate for less skier visits. You like crowds? I don't.

 

[cdskier]

I did see what said. I was just pointing out that the difference is huge to the general community.
BTW I totally advocate for less skier visits. You like crowds? I don't.

Yea...I'd rather pay a bit more for a season pass if that means less people. But I don't really see that combination being an option at the moment.

 

[Getskied]

Advocating for less skier visits (Sugarbush's primary revenue stream) is wild.

You think it would be a better ski experience this weekend with full lots and a single snowmaking route?

Call me selfish but yeah, I’d prefer fewer people skiing generally, or at least crowd sizes to match the amount of lifts and open terrain in play. I’m not one to embrace the trade off of crowded trails to help fulfill some destiny of future capital investment that may or may not ever materialize.

 

[djd66]

The whole cameras being down is comIcal. The funny thing is, last year you could view all the cams by going directly to YouTube,… they figured out our hack this year and took those cams off line. I don’t get it.

Unless they light up lower Jester and or Downspout,… not sure how they will have TTB skiing by Saturday.

Communication from the MTN would be nice.

 

[fulgoreXC]

The whole cameras being down is comIcal. The funny thing is, last year you could view all the cams by going directly to YouTube,… they figured out our hack this year and took those cams off line. I don’t get it.

Unless they light up lower Jester and or Downspout,… not sure how they will have TTB skiing by Saturday.

Communication from the MTN would be nice.

They are on HGT, Murphy's, lower DS, Lower Jester and Gondo. it's 32 in the base area right now. can't make snow at that temp. doesn't matter how much firepower you have.

the communication is lacking for sure. don't understand why.

as for the webcams. not sure it's deliberate. perhaps incompetence. but then again. the MO seems to be "keep them in the dark. we'll give them what we want and they'll like it."

 

[MrGlen]

I think they are scrambling big time… probably a poor decision to focus low from the beginning as temps have cooperative. Hopefully this ends the “focusing low” strategy and opening day on gatehouse for good.

 

[jonnyco14]

They are still blowing on gondolier if you look at the bravo webcam. I am sure they will turn it off at somepoint soon.

 

[tumbler]

They have been deliberately and strategically turning off the webcams for several years now. The GH cam was up all summer and turned off when they start making snow over there.

The crowds are never that bad except a few times a year. As previously stated they need the skier visits to make money and hopefully reinvest.

 

[slatham]

So has anyone measured the snow depth at Lincoln or Ellen at 3,600’, which is the elevation of the Stowe snow stake? It would be interesting to see the difference. This type of pattern is definitely one that favors northern mountains, so each step north delivers more snow, hence why Jay is knocking on 100” of snowfall (NOT depth, like the Stowe stake).

And the difference between Sugarbush and Stowe snowmaking is well documented. Just not the same league.

 

[elfnif1016]

They have been deliberately and strategically turning off the webcams for several years now. The GH cam was up all summer and turned off when they start making snow over there.

The crowds are never that bad except a few times a year. As previously stated they need the skier visits to make money and hopefully reinvest.

Since Alterra bought Sugarbush and the Ikon pass became the default, I'm sure they make most of their money from season passes. I forget exactly what a full/no blackout pass cost in 2020 but I do remember that the initial Ikon pass was less than $1,000. That was cheaper than the SB passes of 2018/2019.

The model for Vail/Alterra resorts has shifted greatly in the past decade. I read an article in the WSJ about the CEO of Vail a few months ago. He said that the revenue mix was now about 60-65% season passes. That was not the case in 2015. I doubt anyone other than a hedge fund guy from NYC is walking up to the window and buying a day pass for >$200 on a weekend or holiday.

The point is that the revenue stream is more or less known by the end of the previous ski season, when the best prices for passes exist. It also helps to fund capital expansion in the off season. Our mountain seems to get the short shrift from Alterra, which is a contradiction from what they told us when they bought the place from Win Smith.

 

[cdskier]

So has anyone measured the snow depth at Lincoln or Ellen at 3,600’, which is the elevation of the Stowe snow stake? It would be interesting to see the difference. This type of pattern is definitely one that favors northern mountains, so each step north delivers more snow, hence why Jay is knocking on 100” of snowfall (NOT depth, like the Stowe stake).

And the difference between Sugarbush and Stowe snowmaking is well documented. Just not the same league.

If I had to guess, I'd put it at about half of what Stowe has (sort of combining what is visible on various webcams plus what SB has reported as snow fall totals at the summit so far).

And yes to the 2nd point (despite the fact that someone not too long ago in this thread claimed SB had "world class" snow-making and had no idea their system was not at the level of nearby competitors).

 

[slatham]

If I had to guess, I'd put it at about half of what Stowe has (sort of combining what is visible on various webcams plus what SB has reported as snow fall totals at the summit so far).

Based on an Instagram post of a friends kid skiing Castlerock from a couple of days ago I will take the over on 19”.

 

[slatham]

Just posted by Stowe: Opening day this Friday is going to be one for the books. We plan to have over 50 trails open, totaling 20+ miles and 225 acres of terrain!

Jay starting with 30 trails, plus whatever patrol opens which is likely to be a lot.