a general question

2knees said:

349 dollar passes and a 9 month season dont work very well together.


you cant have it both ways.

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2knees said:

you're right. :roll: I've only been skiing there since 1984.


cheap passes and reduced budgets have come hand in hand with asc. if you recall, the pass price under preston smith and SKI was in excess of 1000 dollars. but go ahead and make bs assumptions about what i know and what i've experienced at killington.

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Sorry trailboss, but you just got owned... :lol: Now let's all lighten up, guys.

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I was not being sarcastic or condescending. Sorry if anyone got that impression.

I am aware of SKI's pass prices and that they were a lot at the time...but they got that rate because of season length...not sure why we are talking about pass prices...the topic is season length.

My comments were about what Killington used to be under SKI with regards to the length of their season. Nowhere in my comments in this thread did I say anything about pass prices. I did not say anything about pass prices. I'm not sure how that got grafted in here.

I make no assumptions nor do I BS.

Sorry for the confusion...and I did see this: thanks.

I do find it hard to believe people, and no, not trailboss, but people can complain about reduced seasons and such while they are buying a season pass at a major mtn for the cost of a monthly car payment.

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Enough said.

My point was that folks over the past few years have complained about Killington's season length and what it "used to be."

highpeaksdrifter said:

I disagree Andy, Mad wrote season pass. IMO the vast majority of season pass holders want to ski into a late season. IMO day ticket buyers are a different market.

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Well I was talking about both. He may have a good point that Spring passes would have a small market, but I would definately be a market participant. As for long season, I would like to point out that Wildcat is still hanging tough while most of NH has called it quits. Point Wildcat.

F-ing unbelievably stoked the gondi is close. Bolton closed, Burke Saturday was sucky. No one ever go there. Esspecially not this weekend. I hear they are shooting trespassers.
I wish the lifts would never open.
Pow everyday and no retarded powder rush every morning.
There would be enough for everybody and we would all be more fit.
my $.02

The late season crowd is much smaller than the regular season, but the mountains that do stay open get to tap into that pool. It's not big enough for everyone to access it. If someone did a Spring pass, I'd think it would be best to sell it seperately from the regular pass, as an add-on or something, to double dip the Spring skiers. Otherwise, they're operating longer on the same income, and that's not a good way to run a business.

ctenidae said:

The late season crowd is much smaller than the regular season, but the mountains that do stay open get to tap into that pool. It's not big enough for everyone to access it. If someone did a Spring pass, I'd think it would be best to sell it seperately from the regular pass, as an add-on or something, to double dip the Spring skiers. Otherwise, they're operating longer on the same income, and that's not a good way to run a business.

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I agree. Out west, Aspen opperates 2 of their 4 hills with a set opening/closing. The other two the push the envelope with. You can buy a pass to the 2 short season hills substantially cheaper than the other two. Here, for K-Mart or S-Mart, or whatever. It would make sense to sell a Dec 15-April 1/7/15/whatever pass and a for-ever-and-ever pass at a premium. At least I think so, not having ever seen an income statement for one of these places.

All this aside, if, say, Sugarbush--hint hint Win--were to commit to trying to make May 5th or May 12, and sell a spring pass, I would likely purchase.

It gets so tough in an extended season to capture a revenue stream that makes any sense/cents.

Thanks Mad Padraic for Points to the 'Cat, but soooooooooo many late season skiers are skiing on saved vouchers, comps from friends, bartered services and other freebies that very little money crosses the ticket counter in relation to the number of tickets that are printed.

Wildcat has closed ski school ( no instructors willing to make the trip for little or nothing, OR they have opposite season jobs that are starting soon), closed the daycare ( no providers to come for 2 hours and be sent home with no paying customers OR another job that needs them NOW), and no rentals on-site midweek, (late season skiers are not RENTAL customers). They might be happy to demo freebies and save their own, but there is not much revenue there LOLOL!

And yet, when there is 95 % of the mountain open, grooming is expected, lifties are needed, and Ski Patrol has to be staffed to manage sweep at close of day for all open terrain, even though the actual skier day count is minimal. Safety regs cannot be compromised, there needs to be HANDS ON mountain ops.

Bar, food-service, retail...... all iffffy and payroll costs can easily exceed sales. Fewer people cover more services, reducing the overall service experience to the customer. Bugs the customer no end to wait for service when it is slow, and bugs US no end to have to compromise customer service and do multiple jobs when not well crosstrained.. because it is so slow. That is a no-win situation, for ALL of us.

Expenses add up, available personnel disappear, things become painful <indoors> while the <outdoors> is still magic to <the select few> who are still wanting the goods.

How one finds one 's way in the late season, on either side of the bankroll, will always be forum fodder.

It has been interesting to watch the early season discounted pass sales in the past few weeks. I have a sense that some property owners in the MWV ( and perhaps, beyond MWV) area are less than pleased with the new choices offered to them ( and their clients in the time share trade) for 2007-2008 in terms of multi- mountain-access.

Always something!

Breeze

Breeze said:

It gets so tough in an extended season to capture a revenue stream that makes any sense/cents.

Thanks Mad Padraic for Points to the 'Cat, but soooooooooo many late season skiers are skiing on saved vouchers, comps from friends, bartered services and other freebies that very little money crosses the ticket counter in relation to the number of tickets that are printed.
<snipped>

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Now that Cannon, where I had my pass this year is closed, I'm planning on hitting up Wildcat this weekend. I'm as yet undecided about whether or not I'll get a pass to a NH mountain, (Mt Snow, Crotched, and Attitash are out based on price), but Wildcat staying open THIS week has elevated them in my mind. Its too bad the population doesn't appreciate Spring skiing; there isn't much better than Skiing all day and watching the Sox at night.

I've worked in the ski business and still do work in the hospitality business and I am highly proficient at 'zero base staffing' scenarios. I know all about running at the bare minimum to conserve earnings.

What bothers me is inefficiency during late seasons. I'm a Sunday River skier now and they are not operating efficiently in terms of staffing needs for lifts versus open terrain.

They've got 7 lifts open servicing 4 peaks, when they could have 5 lifts open servicing 5 peaks.

They should have SR Xpress, South Ridge Xpress, Spruce Triple, Aurora (or Quantum) and Tempest Open. They would save money doing so over what they currently operate AND have access for us to Aurora where some of the best snow on the mountain exists right now.

I'm simply of the opinion that if your gonna run lean and mean and stay open - give me the best that's available. SR is failing at this right now if you ask me.

or maybe I'm just bitter because I feel that the terrain on Aurora owns that of Barker.

ctenidae said:

The late season crowd is much smaller than the regular season, but the mountains that do stay open get to tap into that pool. It's not big enough for everyone to access it. If someone did a Spring pass, I'd think it would be best to sell it seperately from the regular pass, as an add-on or something, to double dip the Spring skiers. Otherwise, they're operating longer on the same income, and that's not a good way to run a business.

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whiteface did a spring pass this year for $99. would have been well worth buying it considering the spring we have had. if they can commit to being open beyond this sunday, they may sell some more this weekend.

2knees said:

At this point in the year, do you get angry when areas reduce operations or even close down completely when there is still significant snow on the mountain? I see some threads here and there on various boards moaning about this lift being closed or that mtn closing. Personally, while i dont like it, i cant bitch about it cause who can blame a ski area for not wanting to take a bath financially simply to keep a handful of skiers 100% happy. Its a business afterall.

what is your take?

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I really wish Northeastern ski areas would stay open a few extra weeks with limited operations. It always seems like a waste to me when my local ski area closes in late March(this year April 1st) with full coverage on all the runs..I like my last day of the season to require walking..not wall to wall coverage. But people just get that mindset in the spring time to throw in the towel. Even die-hards I know lose enthusiasm when springtime comes. I have even more enthusiasm in the spring because I'm in peak skiing form/shape..and I want to squueze every last run out of the season. I miss the old days when Sunday River, Sugarloaf, Killington, and Sugarbush..had skiing into May..Sugarbush actually was open this last season May 1st along with Killington.

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

I miss the old days when Sunday River, Sugarloaf, Killington, and Sugarbush..had skiing into May..Sugarbush actually was open this last season May 1st along with Killington.

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May 6th was the last lift served day at Lincoln Peak.

My last day at Mt. Ellen was June 15th

BushMogulMaster said:

May 6th was the last lift served day at Lincoln Peak.

My last day at Mt. Ellen was June 15th

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That's when they had the rally in the parking lot right? Props on mid June turns on FIS,,is that where you skied June 15th?

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

That's when they had the rally in the parking lot right? Props on mid June turns on FIS,,is that where you skied June 15th?

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Yeah, I think the rally was the last weekend (5th/6th).

No... I was actually on Riemergasse. Leftovers from the halfpipe. There were still some streaks/patches on FIS, but they weren't worth the hike for one or two turns max.

I was at Sugarbush that last weekend. The rally was in the parking lot May 5 & 6. Lincoln Peak on Cinco de Mayo - what a great day! Both Stein's & Spring Fling were so much fun in the sun.

Also hit last day at Killington on Sunday for a few runs. I was able to make some turns with some AZers that day. Great way to end the season!