The "Sugarbush Thread"

ss20 · Dec 7, 2021

I doubt Killington puts fans on Supe. As stated, the house guns and ratniks are better in marginal temps than the fans. And they're small, portable, compact. World Cup probably wouldn't have happened this year if they hadn't blown the absolute shit outta the top of Superstar with dozens of guns going in marginal temps when guns further down the hill couldn't. Even with non-mounted fan guns you wouldn't get dozens of guns moved to the top and quickly to make snow in a super marginal window.

The only places I want fans at K are Snowshed under the quad, so they can retire the snow guns that currently run dead center of the trail (stupid, dangerous for beginners, take up valuable slope space, etc). Needle's so the natural side gets a little more blown in. And Outer Limits so they can do more "Dust and cover"'s throughout the season after freeze-thaws so they don't have to knock down the moguls everytime they get stiff.

skiur · Dec 7, 2021

ss20 said:
I doubt Killington puts fans on Supe. As stated, the house guns and ratniks are better in marginal temps than the fans. And they're small, portable, compact. World Cup probably wouldn't have happened this year if they hadn't blown the absolute shit outta the top of Superstar with dozens of guns going in marginal temps when guns further down the hill couldn't. Even with non-mounted fan guns you wouldn't get dozens of guns moved to the top and quickly to make snow in a super marginal window.

The only places I want fans at K are Snowshed under the quad, so they can retire the snow guns that currently run dead center of the trail (stupid, dangerous for beginners, take up valuable slope space, etc). Needle's so the natural side gets a little more blown in. And Outer Limits so they can do more "Dust and cover"'s throughout the season after freeze-thaws so they don't have to knock down the moguls everytime they get stiff.

I do not want them on needles, I love how skiers right stays natural and never gets groomed. Putting more man made there ruins it in my opinion, even just a little. I agree with ol but unfortunately the reality of today is ol will be groomed every Friday and Saturday night.

IceEidolon · Dec 7, 2021

Adding fans to Superstar has nothing to do with world cup snowmaking (well, adding auto adjusting high flow high throw guns doesn't exactly hurt) and everything to do with saving labor and fuel and power while building up the Superstar Glacier. I don't recall low E guns at the top of Superstar because of water pressure issues - correct me if I'm misremembering. Fans can tolerate lower pressure than low E guns. There are also times when the towers just run out of room to put more snow - fans have double or triple the throw of a low energy tower, and can put down far more water before they run out of room. Plus, with arm mounts or convertible fan towers, you can get even more reach and altitude.

Fans would range from $40k to $60k per, plus the cost to get substantial power to them which I'm not even going to speculate on. This is not a cheap project, but neither is making a 1000' drop 30' deep glacier out of manmade snow.

machski · Dec 7, 2021

ss20 said:
I doubt Killington puts fans on Supe. As stated, the house guns and ratniks are better in marginal temps than the fans. And they're small, portable, compact. World Cup probably wouldn't have happened this year if they hadn't blown the absolute shit outta the top of Superstar with dozens of guns going in marginal temps when guns further down the hill couldn't. Even with non-mounted fan guns you wouldn't get dozens of guns moved to the top and quickly to make snow in a super marginal window.

The only places I want fans at K are Snowshed under the quad, so they can retire the snow guns that currently run dead center of the trail (stupid, dangerous for beginners, take up valuable slope space, etc). Needle's so the natural side gets a little more blown in. And Outer Limits so they can do more "Dust and cover"'s throughout the season after freeze-thaws so they don't have to knock down the moguls everytime they get stiff.

Outer Limits is fine back with the SR7 towers for now. Someone in the industry needs to come up with a lower energy stick with the throw distance of the SR7. Sunday River has tested a bunch but has yet to find a good replacement for the steeper and wider runs.

ducky · Dec 7, 2021

The Killington Forum

Hawk · Dec 7, 2021

Wow, we went from snowmaking on Lower Downdraft, to Snowlogic guns suck to a Killington snowmaking discussion in one page. I realize the Killington drones can't help themselves.
So back to the present, they are continuing with the snowmaking on Lower Downspout - Lower Jester - Gonollier - Coffee Run. They should be good to go by tomorrow I would think. They seemed close on Sunday. Also all the guns are set up on hot shot, middle jester and organ grinder. Warm temps Saturday.

cdskier · Dec 7, 2021

Hawk said:
Wow, we went from snowmaking on Lower Downdraft, to Snowlogic guns suck to a Killington snowmaking discussion in one page.

Freudian slip? LOL

Hawk · Dec 7, 2021

ya that was from my old SR days. Good catch.

WinS · Dec 7, 2021

Update on F&B. Ran into Keith Paxman today. He said plan is to open downstairs of the new Wunderbar on Friday. Plan is likely both floors on weekends and Holidays probably starting Xmas week. He said it will operate similar to Worthy Burger. Order beer and food at new bar. Take beer and sit down. Runner brings you food.

tumbler · Dec 8, 2021

Thanks for the update. Wunderbar concept sounds different but probably easier with less staff.

djd66 · Dec 8, 2021

WinS said:
Update on F&B. Ran into Keith Paxman today. He said plan is to open downstairs of the new Wunderbar on Friday. Plan is likely both floors on weekends and Holidays probably starting Xmas week. He said it will operate similar to Worthy Burger. Order beer and food at new bar. Take beer and sit down. Runner brings you food.

So will the existing cafeteria still be operating as it’s has in the past?

mrvpilgrim · Dec 8, 2021

Another thought
Valley house cafe has historically been the lunch spot for the program kids. Blazers etc
If valley house becomes a sit down restaurant does that put this group back in Gate House for their chicken fingers and fries

Boxtop Willie · Dec 8, 2021

I've heard that Blazers, etc. will be lunching in the Gate House. Valley House Cafe as we have known it is no more.

HowieT2 · Dec 8, 2021

mrvpilgrim said:
Another thought
Valley house cafe has historically been the lunch spot for the program kids. Blazers etc
If valley house becomes a sit down restaurant does that put this group back in Gate House for their chicken fingers and fries

maybe the last 6-8 years but before they were in the gatehouse cafeteria.

Slidebrook87 · Dec 8, 2021

Something I've noticed about Killington vs. Sugarbush (I think this has been discussed here before) is that Sugarbush typically makes snow with high efficiency guns, lets it form whales, then lets them cure before grooming them out and opening the trail. Typically Killington makes drier, more skiable snow, and keeps the trail open while the snow is being made or grooms the trail immediately after snowmaking has been completed. I'd assume this is because of the less efficient guns that end up producing drier snow.

Newpylong · Dec 8, 2021

IceEidolon said:
Adding fans to Superstar has nothing to do with world cup snowmaking (well, adding auto adjusting high flow high throw guns doesn't exactly hurt) and everything to do with saving labor and fuel and power while building up the Superstar Glacier. I don't recall low E guns at the top of Superstar because of water pressure issues - correct me if I'm misremembering. Fans can tolerate lower pressure than low E guns. There are also times when the towers just run out of room to put more snow - fans have double or triple the throw of a low energy tower, and can put down far more water before they run out of room. Plus, with arm mounts or convertible fan towers, you can get even more reach and altitude.

Fans would range from $40k to $60k per, plus the cost to get substantial power to them which I'm not even going to speculate on. This is not a cheap project, but neither is making a 1000' drop 30' deep glacier out of manmade snow.

There are no pressure issues on Superstar. Everything above Preston's Pitch where fixed equipment can reach is all No Logics (and the oddball SR7 mixed in where the Snow Logics have broken). Those are used later in the season for the glacier build with the lower wet bulb. Below tower 3 is all 30' Impulse towers.

A brand new manual Polecat (on carriage) can be had as part of a bulk buy for $25K. Add a 5 more grand for the auto model, similar cost for the tower mount options as you're just dropping the chassis and putting in more steel.

That said, you will never see a fan deployment on Superstar or anywhere at Killington other than high traffic or base areas. It is not their style. They rather have the flexibility of using different equipment in different conditions. Another issue is GMP is pretty taxed on power into the Basin. That is a large reason Killington uses so many diesel compressors vs owning more electric in house.

I am continually amazed at the lack of fixed equipment there. They don't seem overly concerned about the labor line. But, if that's how they want to roll that's how they roll. They must be doing something right.

Hawk · Dec 8, 2021

Move this to the Killington Thread please. This is Sugarbush.

TSQURD · Dec 8, 2021

HowieT2 said:
maybe the last 6-8 years but before they were in the gatehouse cafeteria.

Many of the groups still ate in Valley House. The Blazers has a whole room on the bathroom level that was packed on a regular basis. Some of the groups used the small room next to the cafeteria, but that room is way too small for the Blazers program from 2 years ago. I have heard they have a sizable waiting list this year, not sure if that's because of staffing issues or because of more interest, or some combo. Really curious if it is more interest because the groups of my three kids fell apart, so we decided against it. Also talked to several other families beyond our old Blazer groups that will not be doing the program due to the shortened season, cost increase, and/or old coaches not returning. Also interestingly, a dedicated lunch room was one of the selling points when they sent the email out about the shorted program and cost increase.

Los · Dec 8, 2021

TSQURD said:
Many of the groups still ate in Valley House. The Blazers has a whole room on the bathroom level that was packed on a regular basis. Some of the groups used the small room next to the cafeteria, but that room is way too small for the Blazers program from 2 years ago. I have heard they have a sizable waiting list this year, not sure if that's because of staffing issues or because of more interest, or some combo. Really curious if it is more interest because the groups of my three kids fell apart, so we decided against it. Also talked to several other families beyond our old Blazer groups that will not be doing the program due to the shortened season, cost increase, and/or old coaches not returning. Also interestingly, a dedicated lunch room was one of the selling points when they sent the email out about the shorted program and cost increase.

Shortened hours too - now running until 2 pm instead of 3.

tumbler · Dec 9, 2021

It will be fine. A majority of the groups ate the Gatehouse anyway, the food was better than the VH cafeteria. Plus the groups are normally in early and out before the lunch crush. I'm intrigued to see what coaches are back this year. Glad my kids went through the program, it is great.

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