The "Sugarbush Thread"

[SkiTheEast]

Looking at HGTV's web site The 2022 HGTV dream home give away house has been built in Warren
Watching the video tour I think i can see some trails it the distance
Does anyone have any intel on where the house was actually built

I believe I read somewhere that its on West Hill Road - my best guess would be past the Inferno Rd split heading toward the Lincoln Gap Road - like around Sugarloaf Hill Road.

 

[ducky]

Yes, West Hill Rd. Locals are pretty pissed they're building these things here when there is such a shortage of affordable housing. At least those are some of the FPF posts and Valley Reporter comments. Some have called for them to not Stowe-ify the MRV.

This rain event tomorrow looks less damaging than before. Turning to showers by 1:00. Let's hope.

 

[cdskier]

Yes, West Hill Rd. Locals are pretty pissed they're building these things here when there is such a shortage of affordable housing. At least those are some of the FPF posts and Valley Reporter comments. Some have called for them to not Stowe-ify the MRV.

One has nothing to do with the other. Hate to break it to those people...but a property like that had 0 chance of being ever turned into affordable housing. If HGTV didn't build there, it would have either stayed whatever it was before (I'm assuming an empty lot) or would have eventually been turned into a nice house by whoever eventually bought the property.

On the bright side...this property should now generate some nice property tax revenue for Warren...

 

[djd66]

Locals are pissed that a home was built on a vacant lot? Really? I suspect that is a very small percentage of locals.

 

[ducky]

Locals are pissed that a home was built on a vacant lot? Really? I suspect that is a very small percentage of locals.

You'd be surprised. It's actually quite a large (and vocal) movement from across socio-economic backgrounds (see front page of this week's VR). The other component is to create affordable child care and this is being done at Neck of the Woods.
The feeling is that HGTV would have got far more traction and good press (certainly amongst Vermonters) creating say 8-12 affordable units on the lot vs one extravagant luxury home, and quite possibly higher profits. It may well have attracted national press. One Warren selectman, Bob Ackland, is spearheading the Warren contingent and would like to see housing developed in the West Hill Rd area near the mountain. AirBnB investment buyers have stripped the valley of long-term rentals and both Warren and Waitsfield trailer parks are full. Many hourly employees have to travel up to an hour to work here. This recent and crazy real estate spike has exacerbated the problem.

 

[deadheadskier]

You'd be surprised. It's actually quite a large (and vocal) movement from across socio-economic backgrounds (see front page of this week's VR). The other component is to create affordable child care and this is being done at Neck of the Woods.
The feeling is that HGTV would have got far more traction and good press (certainly amongst Vermonters) creating say 8-12 affordable units on the lot vs one extravagant luxury home, and quite possibly higher profits. It may well have attracted national press. One Warren selectman, Bob Ackland, is spearheading the Warren contingent and would like to see housing developed in the West Hill Rd area near the mountain. AirBnB investment buyers have stripped the valley of long-term rentals and both Warren and Waitsfield trailer parks are full. Many hourly employees have to travel up to an hour to work here. This recent and crazy real estate spike has exacerbated the problem.

Nice thought, but when has HGTV ever built affordable housing for give aways? Dream Home is a lottery show. Lottery = luxury. I don't disagree that them building and giving away affordable homes would generate great press. But they also do just fine marketing to house wives watching the show with a dream.

 

[1dog]

You'd be surprised. It's actually quite a large (and vocal) movement from across socio-economic backgrounds (see front page of this week's VR). The other component is to create affordable child care and this is being done at Neck of the Woods.
The feeling is that HGTV would have got far more traction and good press (certainly amongst Vermonters) creating say 8-12 affordable units on the lot vs one extravagant luxury home, and quite possibly higher profits. It may well have attracted national press. One Warren selectman, Bob Ackland, is spearheading the Warren contingent and would like to see housing developed in the West Hill Rd area near the mountain. AirBnB investment buyers have stripped the valley of long-term rentals and both Warren and Waitsfield trailer parks are full. Many hourly employees have to travel up to an hour to work here. This recent and crazy real estate spike has exacerbated the problem.

When all is said and done, who actually pays for those affordable housing units - soon as I see that word, I assume it is subsidized and that means tax payer money and who pays into the funds that subsidize? Generally top 10% pay 90% of the Federal take on income taxes - we're all paying the freight on fuel, telecom and property tax.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20200225110058/Summary-of-the-Latest-Federal-Income-Tax-Data-2020-Update.pdf

Its an evolution that has been slow and sure - Aspen - 1 hour plus commute for most workers - Park City happening now, Stowe not far behind.

How do you balance the growth of business ( if it isn't growing it's 'going' out) with crowd control? Don't have the answers, except I'm sure it isn't Montpelier or Washington.

I wonder if 'Bush Inn was converted to employee housing how much they would lose? If that is the largest impediment to workforce, maybe subside housing and lower wages make up the difference. Don't wanna end up like Wildcat or Attitash ( who I've heard from this forum have workforce issues) but have far more housing choices than MRV.


And lastly, the 'transient' inflation ( who here really believed that statement?) is the biggest tax on all - and the bottom 50% can ill afford more pressure on living expenses than existed before 2020.

 

[cdskier]

I wonder if 'Bush Inn was converted to employee housing how much they would lose? If that is the largest impediment to workforce, maybe subside housing and lower wages make up the difference.

FWIW, according to an article in the Valley Reporter back in November, the Sugarbush Inn IS being used for employee housing this season (I'm thinking just part of it and not the whole thing...the quote in the article wasn't very specific on that part though so I could be wrong).

 

[Smellytele]

When all is said and done, who actually pays for those affordable housing units - soon as I see that word, I assume it is subsidized and that means tax payer money and who pays into the funds that subsidize? Generally top 10% pay 90% of the Federal take on income taxes - we're all paying the freight on fuel, telecom and property tax.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20200225110058/Summary-of-the-Latest-Federal-Income-Tax-Data-2020-Update.pdf

Its an evolution that has been slow and sure - Aspen - 1 hour plus commute for most workers - Park City happening now, Stowe not far behind.

How do you balance the growth of business ( if it isn't growing it's 'going' out) with crowd control? Don't have the answers, except I'm sure it isn't Montpelier or Washington.

I wonder if 'Bush Inn was converted to employee housing how much they would lose? If that is the largest impediment to workforce, maybe subside housing and lower wages make up the difference. Don't wanna end up like Wildcat or Attitash ( who I've heard from this forum have workforce issues) but have far more housing choices than MRV.


And lastly, the 'transient' inflation ( who here really believed that statement?) is the biggest tax on all - and the bottom 50% can ill afford more pressure on living expenses than existed before 2020.

Not that I care one way or the other but if they are giving away affordable housing What would be subsidized? Then On the other hand if those “affordable” were resold would they be affordable still?

 

[WinS]

FWIW, according to an article in the Valley Reporter back in November, the Sugarbush Inn IS being used for employee housing this season (I'm thinking just part of it and not the whole thing...the quote in the article wasn't very specific on that part though so I could be wrong).

The entire Inn is being used for employee housing. Something we considered in the past but we’re able to rent enough seasonal not to have to do it.

 

[Hawk]

Went to the wunderbar late yesterday afternoon. I must have missed something. It is actually in the valley house caffiteria and not in the original space that the Wunderbar was in down stair next to the bathrooms. The blazers lunch room seems to still exist there. I think it will work well with lots of seating and good views out the big windows. Good selection of beer and nice people serving and a few TV's with ski movies on. They need to do a little decorating. it is a little generic looking but overall I think it will work.

 

[HowieT2]

When all is said and done, who actually pays for those affordable housing units - soon as I see that word, I assume it is subsidized and that means tax payer money and who pays into the funds that subsidize? Generally top 10% pay 90% of the Federal take on income taxes - we're all paying the freight on fuel, telecom and property tax.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20200225110058/Summary-of-the-Latest-Federal-Income-Tax-Data-2020-Update.pdf

Its an evolution that has been slow and sure - Aspen - 1 hour plus commute for most workers - Park City happening now, Stowe not far behind.

How do you balance the growth of business ( if it isn't growing it's 'going' out) with crowd control? Don't have the answers, except I'm sure it isn't Montpelier or Washington.

I wonder if 'Bush Inn was converted to employee housing how much they would lose? If that is the largest impediment to workforce, maybe subside housing and lower wages make up the difference. Don't wanna end up like Wildcat or Attitash ( who I've heard from this forum have workforce issues) but have far more housing choices than MRV.


And lastly, the 'transient' inflation ( who here really believed that statement?) is the biggest tax on all - and the bottom 50% can ill afford more pressure on living expenses than existed before 2020.

Just a note on that link to the tax data. It is solely looking federal income taxes, but that doesn’t include include payroll taxes, which are withheld from income. all wage earners pay payroll taxes at equal rates up to a little over 100k. these Taxes are in lieu of “income” taxes, so low wage earners don’t pay the “income“ tax because they’ve already paid it in the form of payroll taxes.

 

[WinS]

Went to the wunderbar late yesterday afternoon. I must have missed something. It is actually in the valley house caffiteria and not in the original space that the Wunderbar was in down stair next to the bathrooms. The blazers lunch room seems to still exist there. I think it will work well with lots of seating and good views out the big windows. Good selection of beer and nice people serving and a few TV's with ski movies on. They need to do a little decorating. it is a little generic looking but overall I think it will work.

The Wunderbar is now both levels. I believe both levels will be open weekends and Holidays And downstairs open Thursday and Friday. Tara behind the bar worked at Tracks at The Pitcher Inn for a few years and just returned to the Valley. She is a great addition.

 

[cdskier]

The entire Inn is being used for employee housing. Something we considered in the past but we’re able to rent enough seasonal not to have to do it.

Wow. That's pretty impressive.

Is Sugar Lodge now owned by Sugarbush? As I drove by this afternoon I noticed a sign saying Sugarbush Condo Rental check-ins were now there.

 

[ducky]

Wow. That's pretty impressive.

Is Sugar Lodge now owned by Sugarbush? As I drove by this afternoon I noticed a sign saying Sugarbush Condo Rental check-ins were now there.

Yes, Sugar Lodge was bought by Sugarbush for guest rentals. SB Inn is now all employee housing.

 

[jaybird]

Back on subject..
How many guns firing on Sigi's?
TIA

Think Snow .. maybe burn a pair of wood core

 

[1dog]

Just a note on that link to the tax data. It is solely looking federal income taxes, but that doesn’t include include payroll taxes, which are withheld from income. all wage earners pay payroll taxes at equal rates up to a little over 100k. these Taxes are in lieu of “income” taxes, so low wage earners don’t pay the “income“ tax because they’ve already paid it in the form of payroll taxes.

I'm no CPA or tax expert ( yeah, yeah, take the shots! LOL) but payroll taxes are by definition supposed to be still our money for Supplemental Social Security payments back to us when we are over 62-70.5 ( depending on when you wanna start drawing it). There were never intended for anything else except that.

Short history is it was proposed to be 1% then 'shut off' as the large sum of money would throw off cash from interest investments to pay out.

Started as somewhere between 11 and 22 'payers to takers' ratio. . . now it is 2.5 to 1. And of course its roughly 15%- half by employees and half by employer.

Congress ( who else?) voted to throw it in with the general. fund in the 80's and now its ion deep deficit, but not worse off than Medicare or even worse, Medicaid, all three which will break the country eventually. Sorry about the tangent but point still stands: Its always best to have the money earned be controlled by the earner as opposed to central control. We've rarely had and income problem as a country, as its always a spending problem. . . . . back to our show now. . .

 

[1dog]

Went to the wunderbar late yesterday afternoon. I must have missed something. It is actually in the valley house caffiteria and not in the original space that the Wunderbar was in down stair next to the bathrooms. The blazers lunch room seems to still exist there. I think it will work well with lots of seating and good views out the big windows. Good selection of beer and nice people serving and a few TV's with ski movies on. They need to do a little decorating. it is a little generic looking but overall I think it will work.

so no more upstairs Wunderbar??That atmosphere and views is hard to replace.

 

[cdskier]

Back on subject..
How many guns firing on Sigi's?
TIA

Think Snow .. maybe burn a pair of wood core

Looked like quite a few were setup and making snow (they were all off by this morning). The wind though looks like it was not too friendly to the snow-making attempts on Ripcord and it looks like maybe as much snow went on the trees behind the guns and in the woods as went on the trail itself. Wind was really howling last night at my condo.

Considering the weather and limitations of the SB snowmaking system, it is actually pretty impressive how much the snow-making and grooming teams were able to get open already. Some trails definitely seem thinner than they probably wanted them to be (i.e. Downspout), but at least they got them open.

Looked like they were working on some digging and pipe repair at the bottom of Lower Hotshot today where Sugarbear Road comes across.

Overall not too bad for my first day out today for the season.

 

[Smellytele]

Looked like quite a few were setup and making snow (they were all off by this morning). The wind though looks like it was not too friendly to the snow-making attempts on Ripcord and it looks like maybe as much snow went on the trees behind the guns and in the woods as went on the trail itself. Wind was really howling last night at my condo.

Considering the weather and limitations of the SB snowmaking system, it is actually pretty impressive how much the snow-making and grooming teams were able to get open already. Some trails definitely seem thinner than they probably wanted them to be (i.e. Downspout), but at least they got them open.

Looked like they were working on some digging and pipe repair at the bottom of Lower Hotshot today where Sugarbear Road comes across.

Overall not too bad for my first day out today for the season.

Was there yesterday. They had every tower gun going and at least 7 or 8 ground guns on rip cord. Had 1 going at the intersection of organ grinder and death spout. Deathspout needs to be just about completely reblown. Mostly last pitch before bottom of heaven’s gate. Trail was like skiing on chocolate chip ice cream with freezer burn.