2020-21 Sunday River

[machski]

Ahh, yeah, I think Brian Heon may have a bone to pick considering he was the GM at Cat under Peaks

This was my exact experience back in February and then at the beginning of this month when I brought family up. Split my days between Loon and SR this season on a NEP and couldn’t be happier. They stepped it up, I’ve joked with friends it feels like someone at Boyne has it out for Vail and wanted to show off how much better they are than the big boy of the industry.

 

[thebigo]

I know you ski a fair bit midweek and on those days I would be all over Loon. Without the crowds its a terrific mtn with fast efficient lifts, Nice long runs that interest me. Its also such an easy drive. Sunday River is great and consistent, and the Sugarloaf is the mecca. That pass is more overall but worth every penny. Wildcat will always be there.

That is the plan. Ragged weekends, loon midweek, sr/sl early and late season plus school vacation weeks. I fell backwards into a cottage rental on newfound lake, it is owned by an elderly couple that spend Jan - Mar in Florida. About 15 mins to ragged and 30 mins to loon from the cottage.

Definitely more than we spent last year but skiing is literally the only thing we do as a family and if vail taught us anything last year: you get what you pay for.

I wish the boyne pass had a better deal for western access but if we go it would be in April. May pick up ikon for the following year and use it next April at squaw or mammoth.

We are still at SR and enjoy it here. I would like to do a seasonal rental here but my wife works long hours and the extra hour drive on Friday nights would just be too much for her.

 

[Newpylong]

There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.

 

[Dickc]

There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.

Well, with Loon installing a Dopp D-line 8 pack, I think someone at Boyne is in love with that type of lift. Putting it in Barker basin would be overkill, but at Jordan with the ability to spread out from that peak, it would make more sense. The old Jordan would need a full years worth of rebuild to be fit for Barker however. I just don't think the D-line comes in a 4 pack. I bet the new Barker haul rope WOULD fit the old Jordan however......

 

[Newpylong]

I had an opportunity to get up close and personal with the Loon 8 this week and man those towers are massive.

 

[ss20]

An 8 pack on Jordan? Okkkkk....where are the new trails going to go to make that feasible? How will they widen Kansas so that it's not a suicide run getting out of that pod?

 

[Newpylong]

Yea, it seems odd given the lack of downhill capacity. I don't think any pod at the River would properly support an 8, unless the chairs are heavily spaced out essentinally making it a marketing lift.

Hopefully the rumor stays a rumor and Barker gets addressed.

 

[machski]

There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.

That would suck, upper Carumba would need to be widened considerably for one of those lift monsters. That said, I can see Boyne upper mgmt wanting to improve the Jordan lift first. Given how fast Dreamaker Lodge sold out and the current waiting (wishing) list, bet they are salivating to build more. Only Jordan really has space slopeside. But they need a better wind tolerant lift there first. I would think a D-Line 6 would be enough. 8 off a chair at that summit at a time would be problematic, even with angle unload towards the current patrol shack.

 

[machski]

Not to mention both DB first, and BH this year have stated they don't see a need for an 8 at SR.

 

[ss20]

Also...I'm not an SR expert...but why sink this much $$$ into a lift that runs mid/late December to early April? Especially given it's gotta be in the top 2% of lifts shutdown for wind in the East.

 

[xlr8r]

I still don't get why ASC or Boyne has never built a lift from the base of Jordan that ends at the hotel. Even a t bar would be fine. It would keep ski ski out access even in high wind

 

[machski]

To both of the above posts. First, they NEED to spend money on Jordan because of the hotel. A lot of $$ tied up and while I'm sure Covid has helped drive asking process back up on quarter shares there, they were often going far LESS than Summit unit's due to the lift issue. Boyne is convinced new lift tech would help drastically reduce down days for wind (honestly, the current Jordan was really designed for anything less than min cost I stall IMHO. The loaded chairs aren't even on the dominant windward side of the line!)

A lift from Jordan base to the hotel would work if not for the poor ability for Jordan Double and either Aurora lift to be much better dealing with wind. Why spend money just to the hotel if that is the only lift on that side that would run in winds? I know there are some days when Jordan Double runs all day along with either Aurora or Quantum (or both) but it is not a lot of the days Jordan Quad is down too. So with this, if they are going to spend $$, I think they will spend on the primary lift there and while they are at it, up capacity to cutdown on the mega lines that form over there on weekends.

 

[ss20]

To both of the above posts. First, they NEED to spend money on Jordan because of the hotel. A lot of $$ tied up and while I'm sure Covid has helped drive asking process back up on quarter shares there, they were often going far LESS than Summit unit's due to the lift issue. Boyne is convinced new lift tech would help drastically reduce down days for wind (honestly, the current Jordan was really designed for anything less than min cost I stall IMHO. The loaded chairs aren't even on the dominant windward side of the line!)

A lift from Jordan base to the hotel would work if not for the poor ability for Jordan Double and either Aurora lift to be much better dealing with wind. Why spend money just to the hotel if that is the only lift on that side that would run in winds? I know there are some days when Jordan Double runs all day along with either Aurora or Quantum (or both) but it is not a lot of the days Jordan Quad is down too. So with this, if they are going to spend $$, I think they will spend on the primary lift there and while they are at it, up capacity to cutdown on the mega lines that form over there on weekends.

You're the resident SR expert but I think a Barker 6 pack and a White Cap revamp with better lodge and a Tempest replacement would be better money spent. Both are certainly much more needed than a Jordan replacement and would increase the desirability of that side of the mountain, hopefully reducing the massive crowds on Jordan. I feel like the current situation is like that of Killington before the Snowdon 6 replacement. The Skye Peak/Bear side of the mountain was frequently a shitshow on the weekends while Snowdon was wayyyy underutilized. Now that they've got a six pack on Snowdon (for better or for worse) the rest of the mountain skis much better with crowds very well spread out.

 

[machski]

You're the resident SR expert but I think a Barker 6 pack and a White Cap revamp with better lodge and a Tempest replacement would be better money spent. Both are certainly much more needed than a Jordan replacement and would increase the desirability of that side of the mountain, hopefully reducing the massive crowds on Jordan. I feel like the current situation is like that of Killington before the Snowdon 6 replacement. The Skye Peak/Bear side of the mountain was frequently a shitshow on the weekends while Snowdon was wayyyy underutilized. Now that they've got a six pack on Snowdon (for better or for worse) the rest of the mountain skis much better with crowds very well spread out.

I would agree and have pushed for a better Tempest for years (didn't get very far with that in talks with DB). I feel like White Cap was under utilized due to lack of a good lift out and abandoned lodge. But Shipyard has completely turned the lodge around, almost back to the must be at lodge again. A new lift out would only add to the desirability of basing out of WC again for many.

All that said, if they go to a Jordan replacement first, I would think that indicates they have real estate development plans out there. Below the Hotel down Lolla is probably the best slopeside developable real estate left with easy roadway access. I would still love to see them flip the current quad to Oz and run it down to Jordan base. Would add extra capacity our of the bottom of basin and provide the better ski route out IMHO. The issue with that idea is how much extra traffic gets pushed onto State Fair and lowest part of Rogue. There will be more room at the very bottom as the Jordan replacement base terminal is suppose to be set a hundred or so feet back into the field at the base.

 

[Newpylong]

I think the biggest issue they have is most of these lifts went in during a very rapid build out period and they are all coming due for replacement at the same time. Probably hard to figure out what the immediate need is given the scale of it all...

 

[2Planker]

I think the biggest issue they have is most of these lifts went in during a very rapid build out period and they are all coming due for replacement at the same time. Probably hard to figure out what the immediate need is given the scale of it all...

Barker was long before the rapid build up of ASC in the 90's

".... Built by Yan in 1987 this lift has been modified by Poma a few times.
First in 1996 it received new grips and re-built terminals. It later received new chairs and a few tower heads."

 

[drjeff]

When you think about the age of SR's lifts (and when so many of them were built back in the "Les Otten Glory Days" ) looking at the center of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are relatively new, From Barker on over to the left side of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are nearing the 30 year mark, same thing with the right side of the trail map from basically Aurora on over.

That's a lot of lifts, that will be aging through their 30's on towards 40 years old in the next decade or so. That's certainly something that is likely going to be getting some attention over the next decade, as I think that we all have seen that while lifts can easily run past 40 years, we start seeing and hearing more and more about those vintage lifts having some issues as well.

Much of the ski industry, especially the larger resorts, are likely looking at similar replacement situations in the next decade when one factors in all the rapid expansion that went on in the ski industry from the early 80's into the mid 90's

 

[Hawk]

Barker was long before the rapid build up of ASC in the 90's

".... Built by Yan in 1987 this lift has been modified by Poma a few times.
First in 1996 it received new grips and re-built terminals. It later received new chairs and a few tower heads."

Nope I was there. Actually the start of the push was North Peak 85-86, then Spruce 86-87 and then they did the Tempest/Whitecap and the Barkah in 87-88. 4 lifts in 3 years sounds like a rapid build up to me. That was my first year of season passes after 4 years of day tripping it. They also expanded the barker lodge and that is where we set up shop for the duration. The next year 88-89 was white heat. The 90's were Aurora, Jordan and Oz.
So 7 lifts in the 80's and 4 in the 90's

 

[machski]

When you think about the age of SR's lifts (and when so many of them were built back in the "Les Otten Glory Days" ) looking at the center of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are relatively new, From Barker on over to the left side of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are nearing the 30 year mark, same thing with the right side of the trail map from basically Aurora on over.

That's a lot of lifts, that will be aging through their 30's on towards 40 years old in the next decade or so. That's certainly something that is likely going to be getting some attention over the next decade, as I think that we all have seen that while lifts can easily run past 40 years, we start seeing and hearing more and more about those vintage lifts having some issues as well.

Much of the ski industry, especially the larger resorts, are likely looking at similar replacement situations in the next decade when one factors in all the rapid expansion that went on in the ski industry from the early 80's into the mid 90's

Very true, but some have had major rebuilds since install. The most extensive is probably Locke Triple. Bottom terminal got shifted to hydraulic tension early on, mid station was added early 90's for early season, top return terminal was replace post Spruce failure and most recent it received 4 new towers to raise the line over the new race T-Bar. Along with all the other routine maintenance so I'm guessing this lift is good for some time. Others have seen engineering updates (White Heat comes to mind) that oversecured tower footings in light of the Spruce incident.

I think the biggest lift concerns are the aging detaches first. Quite a few of the original Yan parts left on Barker have been changed out the last several years but they only spin that lift at 700FPM now. Kind of pathetic when the new T-Bar runs as fast or a bit faster. At some point soon they need to replace that before they spend more money on non-Poma parts.

They also have the cobbled together lifts from LBO era to deal with (Little White Cap, Quantum Leap and Jordan Double). These lifts all have parts of different vintage on them but are mostly secondary lifts.

The total issue at SR is that unlike sister resort SL, they can't really just retire and remove an aging lift like SL did a few years ago with Bucksaw. Other than the secondary ones, removing any curtails lift access to some part of the resort. Will be interesting to see how they proceed, especially with Loon getting all the early lift replacement attention.

 

[machski]

Nope I was there. Actually the start of the push was North Peak 85-86, then Spruce 86-87 and then they did the Tempest/Whitecap and the Barkah in 87-88. 4 lifts in 3 years sounds like a rapid build up to me. That was my first year of season passes after 4 years of day tripping it. They also expanded the barker lodge and that is where we set up shop for the duration. The next year 88-89 was white heat. The 90's were Aurora, Jordan and Oz.
So 7 lifts in the 80's and 4 in the 90's

Well, 7 new lifts in the '90's but who's counting (SRX, Aurora, QL, Jordan Quad, Jordan Double, Oz, North Peak Express).