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9% Tax Proposal on NH lift tickts

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abc

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You highlighted, roughly: "I don't believe government should be involved in education at all."

Crazy talk? That's a pretty mainstream opinion, and certainly the prevailing view among those who choose alternatives to public education.
Government is fully involved in K-12 education. Your "main stream" opinion is the government should NOT?

Makes me wonder what "stream" you're swimming at. :roll:
 

thetrailboss

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Oh Yay, more money added to the cost of this sport.


https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news...cle_dbda488a-fc34-11e9-8c77-03d982efef7e.html

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019/11/04/lift-ticket-tax-nh/

CONCORD — Lawmakers are expected to consider a bill next year that would tax ski lift tickets at the same rate as the rooms and meals tax in New Hampshire.

As expected, a ski industry official said they are preparing to oppose it.

State Rep. Craig Thompson (D-Harrisville), said he is floating the idea as a way to create a scholarship program for New Hampshire students to attend in-state colleges and universities. Revenue would help middle-income and lower-income students, he said.

They must have gotten the idea from Vermont....
 

Domeskier

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LOL. Perhaps the good people of NJ should build a wall to keep out these evil leftists from New York who are taxing their guns and bibles to send poor people to colleges they don't need because it's better to live in ignorance when your life is serving burgers and fries to some preferred demographic at a Turnpike rest area. I'm pretty sure the war on the modern welfare state was lost in American in 1935. I think the war on higher education can still be won as it becomes easier and easier to learn the fundamentals of accounting and other useful disciplines by watching videos on youtube.
 

bdfreetuna

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Government is fully involved in K-12 education. Your "main stream" opinion is the government should NOT?

Makes me wonder what "stream" you're swimming at. :roll:

You never heard eliminating DOE proposed?

Basic politics lesson: Some people prefer a more expansive role for the government, others prefer a more limited role of the government.

"Get the government out of education" is a common sentiment with libertarians and conservatives. Go out and meet some of these folks and get exposed to different ideas!
 

abc

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"Get the government out of education" is a common sentiment with libertarians and conservatives.
Not the libertarians I hang out with!

The government wasn't involved in education if you go back a couple centuries. That must be a happier time!

(there're still a lot of countries where the government don't bother with education, most of them in Africa, I think)

One thing we very much know. Uneducated population is a lot easier to govern.

Wonder which leftist government shot themselves in the foot, way back when...
 

bdfreetuna

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The idea behind getting the government out of school is that it would improve education.

Public schools have largely failed, yet we continue to defend them as a sacred institution. I'm sure you're well aware that USA ranks below 20-30 countries on quality of education. Why shouldn't we be #1 or at least right up there? It's pretty easy to discern where the problem lies.

I'm not sure if public schools should be completely eliminated, but it's just a fact that those who attend private schools, religious schools, charter schools, technical schools, or home schooled surpass the public school students in every metric.

So why would I support the least successful schools that put a tax burden on the entire nation?

What I do support is vouchers or other programs for low income kids to attend a quality school. And a tax cut which corresponds to the newly-eliminated public expenses.
 

JimG.

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I went to a private high school. Shortly after I graduated I decided if I had children they would attend public schools. Private schools are for folks who want to learn and socialize with others who are exactly like them. We prefer diversity of all sorts in this family and firmly believe it is best to live and let live. That does not mean we approve or agree with everything such an environment fosters, but we can agree to disagree. That's called reality.

All of my boys graduated/will graduate from a public high school. We moved to this school district for the public education opportunities. We have lived here 17 years and the school budget has never been defeated at the ballot box. I am happy to pay my local and school taxes because this school district is excellent. There are some great private and parochial schools nearby, and many attend those schools which is also fine with me.

I do not believe that government should stay out of education; schooling is necessary and frankly without some kind of outside supervision many would just skip school altogether. If you live in a community it is your duty to support the school system even if you decide to pay for a private school on your own. That's civics 101.
 

abc

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Majority of those countries rank above the US have "government involved" education systems!

Talk about throwing the babe out with the bath water.
 

bdfreetuna

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Private schools are for folks who want to learn and socialize with others who are exactly like them.

Interesting. My experience was the opposite -- we had kids from probably 30 different countries at the school, every corner of the world practically. There was more "diversity" in any way I can think of compared to the public school. The only non-diverse commonality would be that everyone attending had parents who could afford the tuition or get scholarships.

I am considering sending my daughter a historically black private school (because it's nearby and meets our requirements). We are not a black family (not that skin color is real diversity anyway). These things really depend on the circumstances.
 

abc

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All of my boys graduated/will graduate from a public high school. We moved to this school district for the public education opportunities. We have lived here 17 years and the school budget has never been defeated at the ballot box. I am happy to pay my local and school taxes because this school district is excellent. There are some great private and parochial schools nearby, and many attend those schools which is also fine with me.
The US (public) education system is somewhat unique in that it's strictly based on your home address. That led to the coupling of house price to the quality of schools. There're plenty of very good public schools, mostly in affluent neighborhoods. The "national average" is dragged down by the poorly run schools, typically in poor neighborhood. Basically, an economical divide.

I grew up in a different country. My school years coincide with a period of "experiment" to strictly enforce address to school choice. The result was pretty disappointing. Eventually, the policy was abandoned. And students are allow to cross district boundary if they don't mind the longer travel time, with better result.

As a victim of that policy, my school days were largely spent doing my own study while the teacher tried to ram the basic knowledge into the few slowest students, many of whom refuse to learn. So I can't say the quality of schools I attended was brilliant. I succeeded IN SPITE of the school, mostly because my parents instilled in me that "knowledge is power". It's never been truer in today's highly technologically advanced world we live in. That, being the element missing, which contributes more to the poor education system than whether government is involved or not.
 
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BenedictGomez

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This is complete nonsense. Vermont has always been a hipster/outdoorsy/liberal place. Maybe not the entire state but definitely Burlington Vermont and other cities.

Are you 24 years old?

I'm guessing so if you think Vermont has always been a liberal place, because you're dead wrong. It has become massively more liberal in the last 25 years, and "Burlington" in that timeframe has gone from liberal, to leftist.

New Hampshire has always been a mixed bag in terms of politics--that's one thing I actually like about it. And it will always continue to be. No need to panic everyone.

Again, you are dead wrong. As is your assumption that it will "always" continue to be so. Demographics change. There are Blue States that were once Red States & Red States that were once Blue States. And the political demographics affecting New Hampshire right now is that domestic immigration is heavily liberal voting, and it's showing-up in the data. Most of it from Massachusetts. My educated-opinion is that in 3 or 4 more presidential cycles, New Hampshire will no longer be a "Battleground State", but reliably safe Democrat.

It's the demographic. There's nothing you can do about it.

Your "warning" to VT or NH is no better than telling beach loving New Josians winter is coming! It's coming whether they (you) like it or not.

Yup.
 

Smellytele

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Are you 24 years old?

I'm guessing so if you think Vermont has always been a liberal place, because you're dead wrong. It has become massively more liberal in the last 25 years, and "Burlington" in that timeframe has gone from liberal, to leftist.



Again, you are dead wrong. As is your assumption that it will "always" continue to be so. Demographics change. There are Blue States that were once Red States & Red States that were once Blue States. And the political demographics affecting New Hampshire right now is that domestic immigration is heavily liberal voting, and it's showing-up in the data. Most of it from Massachusetts. My educated-opinion is that in 3 or 4 more presidential cycles, New Hampshire will no longer be a "Battleground State", but reliably safe Democrat.



Yup.

i Agree with what you are saying - VT was not a liberal cesspool as it is now when I was growing up. Even now there are 2 Vermonts. The redneck backwoods aboriginals and those that have moved in from CT, NY and NJ and made it what people think it is.

New Hampshire until the 90's was staunch Republican. Not southern jesus freak Republican but financially republican also LIVE FREE OR DIE wasn't just some random cute saying it was what our government lived by.
 

Smellytele

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Tuna there is a difference between the US government controlling the education system (DOE) and wanting local control of public education. Local control is what is usually fought for not having no tax money going toward education.
 

bdfreetuna

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Tuna there is a difference between the US government controlling the education system (DOE) and wanting local control of public education. Local control is what is usually fought for not having no tax money going toward education.

That's a good point and perhaps I worded my position poorly, not that I care to scroll back and see what I actually wrote.

Local control, vouchers for alternative/private education (therefore removing tax penalty of non-participation in public-only)... yes... which means DOE isn't really necessary

Whatever gives parents the most choice and doesn't make them pay for other kids education on top of that. I'm not saying let's shutter the entire public school system. But I think it deserves much more robust competition and a fair playing field.

Parents >>> government in terms of making choices on behalf of their children
 

mister moose

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You never heard eliminating DOE proposed?
I have a family member with 20 years in teaching in an urban school, tough kids. She says she has absolutely no use whatsoever for any Federal program that has come down the pike. They all end up requiring to teach to the test, more forms, more wasted time, and less constructive teaching time. It isn't an easy problem to solve, but central control from afar hasn't been making any progress. You can argue State vs local control, but at least get the Feds out of it.

I am considering sending my daughter a historically black private school (because it's nearby and meets our requirements). We are not a black family (not that skin color is real diversity anyway). These things really depend on the circumstances.

Boom. Serious insight there. That's what 'progressive' thinking should look like.

 

AdironRider

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Benedicts point: 40 fucking years ago things were different!

No shit sherlock.

New Hampshire hasn't been a battleground state in decades.

That being said, no way this tax passes, nor will it moving forward. New Hampshire hasn't changed their tax structure in any meaningful way since the 60's.
 
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bdfreetuna

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Edd

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I have a family member with 20 years in teaching in an urban school, tough kids. She says she has absolutely no use whatsoever for any Federal program that has come down the pike. They all end up requiring to teach to the test, more forms, more wasted time, and less constructive teaching time. It isn't an easy problem to solve, but central control from afar hasn't been making any progress. You can argue State vs local control, but at least get the Feds out of it.


Boom. Serious insight there. That's what 'progressive' thinking should look like.


Not sure that’s real insight. A person’s skin color affects their experience growing up. They can act and sound like however they’re raised but the way others react to/treats them has a massive effect.

Sounds like the serious insight of a white guy.
 

KustyTheKlown

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i dated a black woman for three years. i liked to joke that she's the best black female skier in nyc, because she's just about the only one. she came from money, her family was basically royalty in the caribbean (st kitts and nevis). she went to private high school in NYC, not cheap. but her day to day experience in the world was informed by the color of her skin, and that is unavoidable. people make assumptions and its based on your appearance. being white is a privilege and allows us to move thru the world with relative impunity. dont forget it.
 
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