All time trail design screw ups.

[SIKSKIER]

It's already been said (twice!!)....but Cannon's Profile is absurd.

This trail could be rehabilitated. Planting a few diaganol rows of trees to serve as wind blockers would help hold snow and would add some 'twistyness' to the trail that would be in keeping with the asthetic of the neighboring trails (Ravine and Cannon).

Profile will never be U Cannon or U Ravine but Skylite is an example of how it should have been cut.It's still fairly wide but swings around a little.Never wind problems there.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Profile at Cannon sure is getting creamed.

I've never skied Cannon, so I don't get the criticism. Looking at the trailmap (http://www.cannonmt.com/library/flash/trailmap.html) it looks like Profile is a lift-line trail.

To me, lift-line trails aren't usually very good, but they're not total screw-ups, either. I mean, you do need lifts to get up the mountain, so I understand the urge to just widen the gash and call it a trail....

Maybe the lift went in after the trail?

 

[deadheadskier]

Profile at Cannon sure is getting creamed.

I've never skied Cannon, so I don't get the criticism. Looking at the trailmap (http://www.cannonmt.com/library/flash/trailmap.html) it looks like Profile is a lift-line trail.

To me, lift-line trails aren't usually very good, but they're not total screw-ups, either. I mean, you do need lifts to get up the mountain, so I understand the urge to just widen the gash and call it a trail....

Maybe the lift went in after the trail?

If I recall, there used to be two T-Bars going up the 'non-trail' originally. They took the T-Bars out and widened the hell out of the path to install the quad when it wasn't necessary. That is the gripe I believe people have.

I haven't been to Cannon since the days of the dual T-Bars, so I'm not the best source of info.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

If I recall, there used to be two T-Bars going up the 'non-trail' originally. They took the T-Bars out and widened the hell out of the path to install the quad when it wasn't necessary. That is the gripe I believe people have.

I haven't been to Cannon since the days of the dual T-Bars, so I'm not the best source of info.

Cool, thanks for the info.

On the subject of Cannon, what's the deal with the trails to the right of the mountain? Is that an upcoming expansion? Checking things out on google maps, the trails are cut.

(Sorry if this is way old news/been discussed before.)

 

[2knees]

Cool, thanks for the info.

On the subject of Cannon, what's the deal with the trails to the right of the mountain? Is that an upcoming expansion? Checking things out on google maps, the trails are cut.

(Sorry if this is way old news/been discussed before.)

mittersill, an old ski area that i believe is now actually "inbounds" for cannon.

 

[Paul]

Cool, thanks for the info.

On the subject of Cannon, what's the deal with the trails to the right of the mountain? Is that an upcoming expansion? Checking things out on google maps, the trails are cut.

(Sorry if this is way old news/been discussed before.)

Its a NELSAP area called Mittersill. Not sure when they went tits-up, but it was awhile ago. Cannon wants to take it over, and is in the process of doing so. Riverc0il has a lot of info on it.

 

[Phildozer]

Didnt stratton cut the first "supertrail" back in the mid 80's? I just took a look at the trail map and its called upper and lower meadow but i think it was called something else at first.

I remember that.

It was *the* thing back in the day. Then again, so were 8-track tapes.

 

[Marc]

I remember that.

It was *the* thing back in the day. Then again, so were 8-track tapes.

I'm pretty sure cassette tape "technology" had caught on by the mid 80's there, old man.

 

[thetrailboss]

So what semi-recent trail addition at any mountain do you look at and say "what the #$% were they thinking?"

my nominee is Double Dipper, killington.

I think someone should dig up an old pic to show what the Dipper Area used to look like...

 

[roark]

I think someone should dig up an old pic to show what the Dipper Area used to look like...

I swear it's been done on KZone, but can't find it now.

 

[bobbutts]

I think someone should dig up an old pic to show what the Dipper Area used to look like...

Found this old pic on the web and touched it up a bit

 

[2knees]

I think someone should dig up an old pic to show what the Dipper Area used to look like...

i looked for a while but couldnt find one.

there is one in my memory but it would be tough to scan.

 

[thetrailboss]

Found this old pic on the web and touched it up a bit

Thanks. That one, or the cover of Diane Lorentz's book shows that the area was a large glade that was pretty cool from what I understand. I enjoyed the remnants of that glade last season...and can only imagine what it must have been like to have it stretch across that area. The irony is that they put that trail in and now they rarely run the lift. Again, Pres would be rolling his eyes....

 

[SIKSKIER]

That is the old Mittersill ski area that borders Cannon on the north.I've lived in Mittersill village for 14 years and can speak to that.Mittersill property association gave Cannon the land it owned at the base of the old ski area about 10 years ago with the hope that they would reopen the terrain there.It has not happened yet but it is in their plan.The one sticking point has been the land on the top third and northwest side of the area.That is National forest and the state does not want to go through the potentionally drawnout permiting process that would ensue.The state owns the rest of the land in the whole Franconia Notch State Park so they have been negotiating for a few years to swap a bigger piece of State land in the park for the National land to make all of the old ski area on state property.It appears that swap is about to happen.
As far as Mittersill being used for "backcountry" type skiing accesed from The top of Cannon,this has been happening since Mittersills closing in the early 90's with Cannons approvel.Many of us have been keeping the trails cleared (as well as thinning hidden stashes) for years with Cannon managments blessing.Up until about 5 years ago they actually would bring us up in the tram in fall with our power tools and send us over to Mittersill and Tuckerbrook(backside of Cannon) to do "maintenance".Well this is frowned upon now after National Forest people saw some of the extensive cutting that had been going on over and above just maintaining.Right now Cannon does not really encourage skiing there until the swap is final.More like having a blind eye to it.If you look on the this years trailmap you will see they have drawn in a boundry area which clearly shows where the National forest land lies.Overall I believe this swap will happen and in the states very slow timetable of progress,Mittersill will eventually reopen to some degree as part of Cannon.This is actually phase 3 of a longterm development of which 2 phases have already been completed.The installation of the new detach and Eagle cliff chairs being the first,and the the building of the Tuckerbrook beginer area which brings lifts closer to Mittersill being phase 2.Stay tuned but I'm little more optimistic in my pesimistic mind when it comes to the state getting things accomplished.The economy may play a part in this too.
UPDATE:
I did talk to a few employees this weekend and was told that the land swap has been agreed upon between the 2 parties.Now the process of the state doing it's public hearings for approval begins.

 

[catskills]

Windham has a brand new Hight Speed Quad last year. Last year the entrance area was setup such that 4 people in line were ready to slide straight forward to load the lift. The next four people in line were at a 90 degree angle. With a required 6 second gap between chairs, if the people loading the chair delay moving forward for 3 seconds, then the next 4 people in line have 3 seconds plus 6 seconds or 9 seconds to make a 90 degree turn and load the chair. Many folks can't do it, therefore the lift stop frequency and number of empty chairs is a lot higher than it needs to be. Obviously a poor management decision.

Best to have at least 3 rows of people in a straight line already paired up and ready to load the next three chairs. This avoids unnecessary last second changes on who is going to load what chair.

 

[eatskisleep]

I believe you are talking about Sis Boom Bah, which has been permanently closed and taken off the map. I've skied over 100 days at Jay and saw it open maybe 2 or 3 times.

That is the trail I was thinking of... doesn't hold any snow.

 

[2knees]

trailboss, i found one.

 

[BLESS]

Profile at Cannon sure is getting creamed.

I've never skied Cannon, so I don't get the criticism. Looking at the trailmap (http://www.cannonmt.com/library/flash/trailmap.html) it looks like Profile is a lift-line trail.

To me, lift-line trails aren't usually very good, but they're not total screw-ups, either. I mean, you do need lifts to get up the mountain, so I understand the urge to just widen the gash and call it a trail....

Maybe the lift went in after the trail?

whats with the green zig zag line thru mitt? I don't get it.

 

[ckofer]

Profile at Cannon sure is getting creamed.

I've never skied Cannon, so I don't get the criticism. Looking at the trailmap (http://www.cannonmt.com/library/flash/trailmap.html) it looks like Profile is a lift-line trail.

To me, lift-line trails aren't usually very good, but they're not total screw-ups, either. I mean, you do need lifts to get up the mountain, so I understand the urge to just widen the gash and call it a trail....

Maybe the lift went in after the trail?

It's at the top. Honestly, you can go there the day after a big snowfall and be amazed how icy it is. Maybe they should open a glade area where all that snow goes.

 

[riverc0il]

mittersill, an old ski area that i believe is now actually "inbounds" for cannon.

Mittersill is still outside of the boundary and not patrolled even though Cannon owns the lower slopes.