Alterra and DV Presidents Speak at Virtual Town Hall Event in Park City

[keyser soze]

Pico does have more character than Killington- the one department Killington really lacks and it sucks. The Summit Glades, KA, and Giant Killer to name a few. The old Poma line will scare the crap outta you...I'd argue it's tougher than Rumble at SB but doesn't get the attention as it's technically not a trail.

K woods and SB woods are equal in my opinion, when the snow is equal (as it was this year as Killington got more snow than SB, quite rare). Killington woods do certainly see more traffic though, I would say. But if you go midweek and there's fresh the powder lasts a loooong time in places that are on-the-map but a PITA to get to (Centerpiece, Patsy's, Anarchy, Roundabout glade). But Killington has nothing on Castlerock or Mt. Ellen or Paradise. Just as SB has nothing on Killington after Cinco de Mayo or before Christmas!

My thought has always been, if Killington and SB both got 3 feet of snow and I had to choose a full midweek between the two, I'd choose SB. If I had to do a season pass, it's always going to be K. Peak season SB definitely has superior terrain, but all those days where its "less than peak" Killington will almost always have better options, especially pre-Christmas.

Agree with pretty much everything you said here. One other big advantage Killington has over most resorts is that when the conditions suck such after a thaw/freeze, Killington will make the mountain much more fun than SB. I've been to SB a few times after these thaw/freeze events and had sheets of ice, death cookies, and chicken heads. Yeah, ungroomed is great most times, but there are plenty of days in a typical NE season where you need the snow to be tweaked,

Now that SB is unlimited we will target there as much as possible when the conditions are decent and save the K days for those challenging condition days. We also will hit Stratton on getaway days to take some time off the commute home. This year i ended up buying a K spring pass anyway as i didn't have enough days on the K pass and spring skiing at K is a ton of fun as others have posted. Not as good as pow days, but then the corn is there all day and pow is tracked out pretty quickly.

I skied Killlington Saturday and while conditions are deteriorating as they are everywhere in the NE, I would bet there is much more open and skiable than SB at this point. Friends were there the prior weekend and set it was bleak, and then we had the very warm spell.

 

[thetrailboss]

They've done some significant snowmaking upgrades recently (including tapping into K's water supply):

https://www.picomountain.com/the-mountain/mountain-info/mountain-improvements

Beyond that I'm not sure what else needs to be done. Other than snowmaking, I never really felt it was neglected. I don't really remember the lodge too well, but that's never really something I focus on at any resort. A no frills lodge is fine with me as long as it is functional. Lifts seemed adequate last time I was there. I'd only replace lifts if it is needed due to age. Capacity wise I thought they were fine.

Next year I really want to make it my goal to get back there.

That is good to hear. How about Outpost? Is that still running?

 

[JimG.]

That is good to hear. How about Outpost? Is that still running?

It was last time I was there 2 years ago.

 

[ss20]

That is good to hear. How about Outpost? Is that still running?

Yes it still runs weekends and sometime midweek (hit/miss from my experience). They partially re-painted it a couple years ago. The GM says it's the next lift to get replaced. Probably not this summer, or next summer with K1 lodge construction.

Honestly I can see it going another decade. It's not THAT old being from '69. Still some lifts in the NE running with that age. Off the top of my head- halfway double at Catamount, the former Snowdon poma at K, some of the doubles at Smuggs tho they're seen updates through the years, Red at Magic is only a year or two newer iirc. Outpost has a short season and isn't a critical lift so I can see Powdr running it into the ground.

At White Pass, WA I rode a VERY antique Riblet lift from the 50s!

 

[thetrailboss]

Yes it still runs weekends and sometime midweek (hit/miss from my experience). They partially re-painted it a couple years ago. The GM says it's the next lift to get replaced. Probably not this summer, or next summer with K1 lodge construction.

Honestly I can see it going another decade. It's not THAT old being from '69. Still some lifts in the NE running with that age. Off the top of my head- halfway double at Catamount, the former Snowdon poma at K, some of the doubles at Smuggs tho they're seen updates through the years, Red at Magic is only a year or two newer iirc. Outpost has a short season and isn't a critical lift so I can see Powdr running it into the ground.

At White Pass, WA I rode a VERY antique Riblet lift from the 50s!

Hey if they have fixed it up and it passes inspection than keep it. I loved that lift. So neat. It is like a mini Castlerock area. Sidewinder is a fun trail.

 

[cdskier]

Hey if they have fixed it up and it passes inspection than keep it. I loved that lift. So neat. It is like a mini Castlerock area. Sidewinder is a fun trail.

That's one of the areas I never explored at Pico but definitely want to. For some reason when I was there in the past we always stuck to lapping the summit chair for the most part (granted one time it was raining at the base and snowing at the summit, so that time it made complete sense to stay up top...that may have been one of my first personal experiences with how much can change with elevation).

 

[ss20]

That's one of the areas I never explored at Pico but definitely want to. For some reason when I was there in the past we always stuck to lapping the summit chair for the most part (granted one time it was raining at the base and snowing at the summit, so that time it made complete sense to stay up top...that may have been one of my first personal experiences with how much can change with elevation).

My only issue with Outpost is it's awfully short. Like literally 500 vertical feet iirc. I like the terrain but if I wanted to to 4 minutes up, 2 minutes down I would've stayed home in CT!!!

I remember maybe 3 years ago I had a early January powder day at Pico midweek. Heaven. I skied one of the trails in the Outpost area- awesome. Totally fresh because you have to hike it midweek. Got to the bottom and they were just opening the chair mid-day as a surprise! For the first hour over there it was myself and maybe 2-3 dozen other people lapping that chair before word got around the mountain. Soooooo many first tracks for that hour. A photographer had set up under the lift line and was taking pictures of us coming down. The whole vibe was incredible.

I identified the guy loading chairs at the bottom to be a lift ops supervisor/mechanic as he had a radio on him and would sometimes check things as we loaded with a regular lift worker loading chairs for him. Later when he was back to bumping chairs, I asked him somewhat jokingly "running this thing to make sure it still runs for the weekend?" (it hadn't been open yet that year). His deadpan response- "yes".

 

[thetrailboss]

I first skied Outpost in 2000-2001 season. I was in College and frequented Sugarbush with my "All East Pass". It gave me reason to finally try out Sunday River and Pico. I had driven by Pico before as a kid and thought it looked great. I also read a lot of brochures over the years (remember brochures?!) and wanted to try it. For those that don't remember, 2000-2001 was a great snow year.

Honestly, I fell in love with Pico. All of my friends preferred skiing Killington, Sugarbush, or even Snow, but I really liked the terrain, vibe, and the unpretentious atmosphere. If anything I regretted not getting there sooner to check out the old Poma and the Glades Chair.

I stumbled upon Outpost by accident really and decided to scope it out. I agree with the short vert and runs, but man it was fun to ski that terrain and the glades. NOBODY seemed to go there and that season I skied pow, corn, bumps, and all sorts of stuff on that side. Pipeline, Sidewinder, Wrangler, and even Bronco really helped me improve my technical skiing. IIRC Bronco had relatively new snowmaking on it for race training.

I also really love Summit Glade, Upper KA, Sunset '71, Birch Glades, and a lot of other unofficial finds. It always seemed odd that such a nice resort with great terrain struggled as it did. And A Slope is no joke. I never really liked Upper Giant Killer--it seemed like Exterminator at Sugarbush with worse conditions. And it was another of many runs that had snowmaking on it that had not been maintained or repaired.

My question about upkeep was because I always felt sad that things were let go there. A lot of trails were getting grown in during my last season there in 2006-2007. I do want to go back someday.

 

[cdskier]

I first skied Outpost in 2000-2001 season. I was in College and frequented Sugarbush with my "All East Pass". It gave me reason to finally try out Sunday River and Pico. I had driven by Pico before as a kid and thought it looked great. I also read a lot of brochures over the years (remember brochures?!) and wanted to try it. For those that don't remember, 2000-2001 was a great snow year.

Honestly, I fell in love with Pico. All of my friends preferred skiing Killington, Sugarbush, or even Snow, but I really liked the terrain, vibe, and the unpretentious atmosphere. If anything I regretted not getting there sooner to check out the old Poma and the Glades Chair.

I stumbled upon Outpost by accident really and decided to scope it out. I agree with the short vert and runs, but man it was fun to ski that terrain and the glades. NOBODY seemed to go there and that season I skied pow, corn, bumps, and all sorts of stuff on that side. Pipeline, Sidewinder, Wrangler, and even Bronco really helped me improve my technical skiing. IIRC Bronco had relatively new snowmaking on it for race training.

I also really love Summit Glade, Upper KA, Sunset '71, Birch Glades, and a lot of other unofficial finds. It always seemed odd that such a nice resort with great terrain struggled as it did. And A Slope is no joke. I never really liked Upper Giant Killer--it seemed like Exterminator at Sugarbush with worse conditions. And it was another of many runs that had snowmaking on it that had not been maintained or repaired.

My question about upkeep was because I always felt sad that things were let go there. A lot of trails were getting grown in during my last season there in 2006-2007. I do want to go back someday.

The 2000-2001 season would have been the first season I ever went to VT (my dad took me, my brother, and a couple of our friends to Okemo for my spring break from college which was around the 3rd week of March). I remember everything being quite deep and well covered with snow. Being my first time in VT, I just sort of assumed it was always like that! Next year repeated the Okemo trip the same weekend in March...way less snow. Then in 2003 we moved the trip further north to K and Pico. That must have been a pretty good snow year too as the snow on the deck of the condo we rented across the street from Pico was about 2/3 of the way up the door. Summit Glades was one of the trails that I thought was really cool and unique. I remember skiing that one a bunch that time.

On the topic of brochures, sure do remember them. I probably still have a bunch in a cabinet or drawer at home somewhere. Brochures were how I found Sugarbush. After doing 2 Okemo trips and 2 K/Pico trips during college, I wanted to see what else VT had to offer the year after I graduated college. Ended up picking Sugarbush. Took my brother for a mid-week trip to VT as his Christmas present (this would have been January 2005 I think). Had a great time. Several days that week featured several inches of fresh snow. Made it a point to make Sugarbush a yearly destination after that and eventually became a season passholder after it continued to be my favorite trip every year.

 

[kingslug]

Watched a vid about Poma line..I'll pass on that one...elevator chute.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

poma line really is not that difficult. its a bit narrow, and when there is low cover there is a thick metal cable running up the middle, and cement blocks from the old lift. but its not THAT steep, and its not THAT narrow. its skiable and fun to anyone who feels comfortable on, well, somewhat steep and narrow terrain.

i have skied pico maybe 10 days total in my life and i have not once seen outpost open and running while i was there. its always been a short hike to access that stuff, and I've had incredible powder runs because no one else wanted to walk for 5 minutes.

 

[skiur]

Cascade was open all day today. Wish more steep stuff was open today. Outer Limits opened later in the day (after I had left the Bear side). Lower Double Dipper and Ovation were closed (Lower Double Dipper and Lower Ovation look questionable on whether K will open them back up at all as they had some pretty significant bare spots forming). Downdraft was only partially open (although middle and lower either opened later in the day or are expected to be open tomorrow based on the current trail report). I wish they were running the Canyon quad mid-week so you could access that terrain without needing to take the K1 Gondola. (No Bear Mountain Quad either mid-week is also a pain if you want to ski OL).

Canyon quad runs midweek Monday/Wednesday/Friday.

 

[kingslug]

The vid looked 1 turn wide..lot of exposed rocks..Narrow. When the camera pans up it looks pretty steep.

Have to get to Pico next year.

 

[cdskier]

Canyon quad runs midweek Monday/Wednesday/Friday.

Interesting and a bit odd. Is there something that doesn't run on M/W/F that runs on T/Th? Or is Canyon the only one they only run every other day mid-week? I couldn't find an actual schedule of what runs what days. Only thing I saw was the list of what is open/scheduled today.

 

[Keelhauled]

At one point in the recent past I believe they alternated North Ridge and Canyon, don't know if that's still the case though.

 

[skiur]

At one point in the recent past I believe they alternated North Ridge and Canyon, don't know if that's still the case though.

North ridge runs every day. Needles runs m/w/f as well, bear quad runs Fri, not sure about m/w. Canyon should run everyday, the mountain skis so much better when it's spinning.

 

[cdskier]

North ridge runs every day. Needles runs m/w/f as well, bear quad runs Fri, not sure about m/w. Canyon should run everyday, the mountain skis so much better when it's spinning.

If by Needles you mean the Needles Eye Express Quad...it was running Tuesday this week when I was there. And I'd agree that Canyon should run everyday. I don't really understand the logic in skipping T/Th.

 

[xlr8r]

My first time to Pico was in 2010, around when Powdr got the place from ASC. I think over the years Powdr has done a good job of maintaining it, with some small careful changes and improvements. Except for Outpost's towers, all the lifts have been painted, snowmaking has improved. The tree skiing which is one of Pico's strongest aspects has been fully developed by Powdr over the last 10+ years. The lodge is one of my favorites and is the perfect size for the mountain. And the surrounding buildings and condos make for a nice base area. So I think Powdr has done a good job of preserving what makes Pico special. It is a mountain that when you visit, it feels like a step back in time to the 1980s. There is nothing really run down about the place, its just that there is nothing new and shiny either.

The mountain is full of character, and the small little pods on the lower mountain and the big Summit pod on the upper mountain makes for a great layout. It is fun riding the smaller pods of Little Pico, Knomes Knoll, and of course Outpost. They are fun diversions from the runs off of Summit express. KA is probably my favorite trail in New England and Poma Woods is one of my favorite glades.

Outpost probably won't last forever, I think a T-Bar might be an appropriate replacement when the time comes. It is kinda like a mini Castlerock, and I have seen it on weekend powder days with a line snaking up the mountain just like castlerock as well. I bet Superstar and Snowshed will be canibalized when they are replaced to keep Summit and Golden going for at least another 10+ years. Hopefully the interconnect never happens it would ruin the vibe and overcrowd the place on weekends.

 

[Smellytele]

My first time to Pico was in 2010, around when Powdr got the place from ASC. I think over the years Powdr has done a good job of maintaining it, with some small careful changes and improvements. Except for Outpost's towers, all the lifts have been painted, snowmaking has improved. The tree skiing which is one of Pico's strongest aspects has been fully developed by Powdr over the last 10+ years. The lodge is one of my favorites and is the perfect size for the mountain. And the surrounding buildings and condos make for a nice base area. So I think Powdr has done a good job of preserving what makes Pico special. It is a mountain that when you visit, it feels like a step back in time to the 1980s. There is nothing really run down about the place, its just that there is nothing new and shiny either.

The mountain is full of character, and the small little pods on the lower mountain and the big Summit pod on the upper mountain makes for a great layout. It is fun riding the smaller pods of Little Pico, Knomes Knoll, and of course Outpost. They are fun diversions from the runs off of Summit express. KA is probably my favorite trail in New England and Poma Woods is one of my favorite glades.

Outpost probably won't last forever, I think a T-Bar might be an appropriate replacement when the time comes. It is kinda like a mini Castlerock, and I have seen it on weekend powder days with a line snaking up the mountain just like castlerock as well. I bet Superstar and Snowshed will be canibalized when they are replaced to keep Summit and Golden going for at least another 10+ years. Hopefully the interconnect never happens it would ruin the vibe and overcrowd the place on weekends.

Skinned up Pico Yesterday afternoon on my way back from work in Rutland. Came down Pike. Soft bumps up on top then there was a groomed strip through the middle flats. only maybe 2 other ways down. Upper Ka and 49er. Actually they only show 49er open today from the top. They close Sunday

 

[thetrailboss]

My first time to Pico was in 2010, around when Powdr got the place from ASC. I think over the years Powdr has done a good job of maintaining it, with some small careful changes and improvements. Except for Outpost's towers, all the lifts have been painted, snowmaking has improved. The tree skiing which is one of Pico's strongest aspects has been fully developed by Powdr over the last 10+ years. The lodge is one of my favorites and is the perfect size for the mountain. And the surrounding buildings and condos make for a nice base area. So I think Powdr has done a good job of preserving what makes Pico special. It is a mountain that when you visit, it feels like a step back in time to the 1980s. There is nothing really run down about the place, its just that there is nothing new and shiny either.

The mountain is full of character, and the small little pods on the lower mountain and the big Summit pod on the upper mountain makes for a great layout. It is fun riding the smaller pods of Little Pico, Knomes Knoll, and of course Outpost. They are fun diversions from the runs off of Summit express. KA is probably my favorite trail in New England and Poma Woods is one of my favorite glades.

Outpost probably won't last forever, I think a T-Bar might be an appropriate replacement when the time comes. It is kinda like a mini Castlerock, and I have seen it on weekend powder days with a line snaking up the mountain just like castlerock as well. I bet Superstar and Snowshed will be canibalized when they are replaced to keep Summit and Golden going for at least another 10+ years. Hopefully the interconnect never happens it would ruin the vibe and overcrowd the place on weekends.

If you have a minute, take a look at some of the old Pico maps on SkiMaps.org. You will see how back in the day the mountain was set up REALLY well with those little areas and different lifts to spread folks out. Here is one from right before SKI/ASC took it over: