Amtrack to VT

[BenedictGomez]

I would go on many more trips to North Vermont if they had much quicker train service, I would not have worry about a long drive.

I live much farther than you and I dont consider it a long drive. I guess it all depends on individual perspective.

i don't get to burlington often so please explain..

i get a bus /train to burlington, then what? stay in the city or go on from there? do the resorts have shuttles to mountains from downtown burlington?

I used to live there and I dont get it either, unless you have friends/family. Maybe things have changed since then, but there was no ski-shuttle you could pay for or free mountain service unless I was unaware of it.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

i don't get to burlington often so please explain..

i get a bus /train to burlington, then what? stay in the city or go on from there? do the resorts have shuttles to mountains from downtown burlington?

I've never done this but Smuggs looks like it has a shuttle service on weekends and holidays:

http://www.smuggs.com/pages/winter/skiride/ski-bus.php

 

[gmcunni]

I've never done this but Smuggs looks like it has a shuttle service on weekends and holidays:

http://www.smuggs.com/pages/winter/skiride/ski-bus.php

that's pretty cool. i don't know the area at all but google mapping the locations on the bus route i don't get a sense that there are nearby hotels so perhaps not a great option for a tourist but certainly a great option for locals.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

that's pretty cool. i don't know the area at all but google mapping the locations on the bus route i don't get a sense that there are nearby hotels so perhaps not a great option for a tourist but certainly a great option for locals.

I guess you would need to stay in Burlington where there are lots of hotels, bars, tourist stuff and great food. Catch the bus at UVM. It does seem like more of a locals thing but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

 

[gmcunni]

I guess you would need to stay in Burlington where there are lots of hotels, bars, tourist stuff and great food. Catch the bus at UVM. It does seem like more of a locals thing but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

staying in the city and the uvm stop does look like a great option. i don't mind the drive but could be fun weekend to do the city thing.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Leaving from 7am at UVM, I'd say Smuggs gears the bus towards college students, but there is a Sheraton across the street from the Gutt, so it would be doable. The Megabus stop is right at UVM too, so I guess you could cobble a trip like that together.

 

[ScottySkis]

I live much farther than you and I dont consider it a long drive. I guess it all depends on individual perspective.



I used to live there and I dont get it either, unless you have friends/family. Maybe things have changed since then, but there was no ski-shuttle you could pay for or free mountain service unless I was unaware of it.

Well having an old dying car and not a big salary also plays into less trips to North Vermont. But honestly even if I made more $ for me I do not enjoy driving 5 hours every weekend to be in New England average winter, I would rather just to SLC once every month.

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[steamboat1]

The Rutland Killington/Pico area is set up well for those coming by train or bus & don't have any other transportation. They already have a mass transit system that picks people up downtown at the train or bus stop & runs on a regular schedule. The bus stops at all the major hotel/motels going up to Killington/Pico. It will even pick you up from your hotel/motel & take you to & from the mountain during the day. Many of the employees that work on the mountain use the transit system. They even have buses that run south to Manchester & north to Middlebury or Burlington.

The BUS...http://www.thebus.com/

 

[oakapple]

Its really a shame that the train to vt is such a disaster. it would be a great way to attract young city dwellers to the slopes. What a waste.

They've been making improvements gradually, and more are planned. The Ethan Allen, for instance, is 15 minutes faster (and much more frequently on time) than it was 2 years ago. A forthcoming upgrade to the Vermonter will shave 30 minutes off the travel time.

Even so, both routes set ridership records last year.

 

[HowieT2]

They've been making improvements gradually, and more are planned. The Ethan Allen, for instance, is 15 minutes faster (and much more frequently on time) than it was 2 years ago. A forthcoming upgrade to the Vermonter will shave 30 minutes off the travel time.

Even so, both routes set ridership records last year.

Please, those improvements are a joke. I live a few miles from the amtrak station in croton. The train up to vt takes twice as long as driving a car. That is ridiculous. There should multiple express trains (with big bar cars) running from philly, nyc and boston on friday nights.

 

[millerm277]

Please, those improvements are a joke. I live a few miles from the amtrak station in croton. The train up to vt takes twice as long as driving a car. That is ridiculous. There should multiple express trains (with big bar cars) running from philly, nyc and boston on friday nights.

Improvements take time, especially in the rail world. There is not really current ridership to justify some huge expansion in train service, although they're talking about adding a new train to the southern half of the Vermonter.

 

[oakapple]

Please, those improvements are a joke. I live a few miles from the amtrak station in croton. The train up to vt takes twice as long as driving a car. That is ridiculous. There should multiple express trains (with big bar cars) running from philly, nyc and boston on friday nights.

There isn't enough ridership to justify that much service. When the Ethan Allen was introduced in 1996, that route hadn't seen passenger service since 1953. By then, the tracks were used for slow-moving freight trains, which still have the right-of-way on certain track segments. They're improving gradually, as funding permits. If they keep setting ridership records, I suspect they'll improve even more. As it is, the State of Vermont subsidizes the two trains, or they wouldn't exist at all. Twice (2008, 2009), the state proposed cutting the Ethan Allen.

From New York City, the Ethan Allen's 5½ trip is slower than driving, but not twice as slow. Penn Station to Rutland is about a 4½-hour drive.

 

[HowieT2]

There isn't enough ridership to justify that much service. When the Ethan Allen was introduced in 1996, that route hadn't seen passenger service since 1953. By then, the tracks were used for slow-moving freight trains, which still have the right-of-way on certain track segments. They're improving gradually, as funding permits. If they keep setting ridership records, I suspect they'll improve even more. As it is, the State of Vermont subsidizes the two trains, or they wouldn't exist at all. Twice (2008, 2009), the state proposed cutting the Ethan Allen.

From New York City, the Ethan Allen's 5½ trip is slower than driving, but not twice as slow. Penn Station to Rutland is about a 4½-hour drive.

The vermonter leaves nyc at 11:30 and gets into montpelier at 8. Thats silly. Who can even leave work at 11:30? The ethan allen is faster to rutland but it also leaves early at 3:15. Im afraid what is really needed is a complete reorganization of amtrak by an act of congress. Not imminent. I would imagine the availability of platforms at penn and track during rush hour are significant obstacles to having trains leave at resonable hour say between 5 and 7.

 

[x10003q]

The vermonter leaves nyc at 11:30 and gets into montpelier at 8. Thats silly. Who can even leave work at 11:30? The ethan allen is faster to rutland but it also leaves early at 3:15. Im afraid what is really needed is a complete reorganization of amtrak by an act of congress. Not imminent. I would imagine the availability of platforms at penn and track during rush hour are significant obstacles to having trains leave at resonable hour say between 5 and 7.

The train out of NYC only works for a narrow segment of skiers/boarders. The best bet is for a single person who has equipment in VT already or is going to rent.

I tried to figure out a train trip for my wife and son when I lived in NYC. We had a car in NYC already so a car was cheaper vs 3 train tickets. The car was also way faster, more flexible for leaving and returning, and helpful when in VT. We had equipment in NYC so renting was out. The thought of manuvering equipment for weekend around NYC and then Penn Station on a Friday was not something I wanted to experience. To do the train we would need a cab to Penn Station - if the skis would fit. Then skis out of cab and into the Friday insanity of Penn Station. Then load the stuff on the train. Then unload in Rutland and load into a van to get to the lodging. Then unload the van and into the lodge after midnight only if there are no delays. You are so tired from humping equipment you will sleep in late and only get to ski from 11-4. You also had to leave early on Sunday to catch the train in Rutland.

So you only ski 1 day. Yikes.

The train in its current state is a nonstarter for me and probably many families.

 

[millerm277]

The vermonter leaves nyc at 11:30 and gets into montpelier at 8. Thats silly. Who can even leave work at 11:30? The ethan allen is faster to rutland but it also leaves early at 3:15.

Vermont funds both trains, I would imagine that they have a significant influence on when they run. Neither is particularly oriented at ski traffic as-is.

Im afraid what is really needed is a complete reorganization of amtrak by an act of congress.

There is basically no way this train could ever make money, or justify keeping the tracks in a condition necessary to run it at high speed, if that's what you're imagining.

 

[oakapple]

The vermonter leaves nyc at 11:30 and gets into montpelier at 8. Thats silly. Who can even leave work at 11:30? The ethan allen is faster to rutland but it also leaves early at 3:15. Im afraid what is really needed is a complete reorganization of amtrak by an act of congress. Not imminent. I would imagine the availability of platforms at penn and track during rush hour are significant obstacles to having trains leave at resonable hour say between 5 and 7.

Ridership has gone up every year. I assume the state, which subsidizes the service, has figured out who the riders are, and when they want to travel. Congress has nothing to do with it. If the state didn't pay, the service wouldn't exist.

By the way, the Friday evening Ethan Allen leaves NYC at 5:45pm, not 3:15. The Sunday return is also later, so you can take the train and get in two full ski days.

 

[BenedictGomez]

As it is, the State of Vermont subsidizes the two trains, or they wouldn't exist at all. Twice (2008, 2009), the state proposed cutting the Ethan Allen.

There are many wasteful "life support" trains like this across the nation. It's common. In Vermont's case, however, the poor structure and organization cant be helping. Though as you said, there will never be enough riders to make that train economically feasible, and frankly, it should just be scrapped.

I live approximately 10 minutes from Penn Station and take frequent trips not just to Vermont, but to a town in which the train stops. Theoretically, I should be their perfect "customer". I've never taken the train once, and I never would. Taking the train is, in a word, dumb.

 

[oakapple]

There are many wasteful "life support" trains like this across the nation. It's common. In Vermont's case, however, the poor structure and organization cant be helping. Though as you said, there will never be enough riders to make that train economically feasible, and frankly, it should just be scrapped.

I live approximately 10 minutes from Penn Station and take frequent trips not just to Vermont, but to a town in which the train stops. Theoretically, I should be their perfect "customer". I've never taken the train once, and I never would. Taking the train is, in a word, dumb.

As I'm not a Vermont resident, I don't follow closely the politics that led the state to sponsor the trains and to keep doing so. But rail is subsidized all over the country. Apparently, state and local governments believe it's worthwhile. I'll repeat: ridership on those trains goes up every year. I've no idea if you're their ideal customer, but it must be working, or all of those dummies would eventually figure out that they shouldn't use it.

By the way, as you're a New York resident, you probably take local transit (subway, bus, perhaps commuter rail), which is also government subsidized. If you didn't take trains, you'd probably be taking roads or planes, and they're subsidized too. I'm not sure what kind of transportation you could take, other than walking, that doesn't receive government assistance.

 

[Smellytele]

As I'm not a Vermont resident, I don't follow closely the politics that led the state to sponsor the trains and to keep doing so. But rail is subsidized all over the country. Apparently, state and local governments believe it's worthwhile. I'll repeat: ridership on those trains goes up every year. I've no idea if you're their ideal customer, but it must be working, or all of those dummies would eventually figure out that they shouldn't use it.

By the way, as you're a New York resident, you probably take local transit (subway, bus, perhaps commuter rail), which is also government subsidized. If you didn't take trains, you'd probably be taking roads or planes, and they're subsidized too. I'm not sure what kind of transportation you could take, other than walking, that doesn't receive government assistance.

To add to this roads for the most part are total subsidized by the all tax payers. Yes, there are some toll roads but they do not come close to paying for the millions of miles of roads in this country.

 

[BenedictGomez]

By the way, as you're a New York resident, you probably take local transit (subway, bus, perhaps commuter rail), which is also government subsidized. If you didn't take trains, you'd probably be taking roads or planes, and they're subsidized too. I'm not sure what kind of transportation you could take, other than walking, that doesn't receive government assistance.

Correct; I take the subway, which is also admittedly completely inefficiently run and wasteful as well. There was some talk of privatization of the MTA (it's basically a pseudo government/private partnership) to make it more economical and because of their many high-profile failures, but it never happened.

As for the Vermont train, my educated guess is that the "record" number of riders has little to do with increased efficiency, and everything to do with record petroleum prices. In a word, economics. But my less educated guess is that even if gas was $1000 per gallon, that train probably wouldnt make money. Not to get too off topic, but Amtrak has never had a single profitable year, and the only profit-making route they currently have is the Boston to Washington DC (via NYC) run.