Any Bean Counters here?

[kingslug]

So..everyone is asking why? Why are lifts not running. Why are lifts breaking down. Lack of staff, etc. Anyone know how much a resort makes off the other stuff we all buy while we are there. Vail and other companies already have your pass money..so thats in the bank. But what about food sales, gear, and BOOZE..that a biggie. We all know they are looking at spread sheets way more than the weather. They know you are going to come regardless of the weather ( well most of us).

 

[WWF-VT]

Food sales, gear and BOOZE aren't happening this season

 

[kingslug]

Thats the point. Big hit to the bottom line..Have to cut somewhere..Lifts, snow making...

 

[JimG.]

Food sales, gear and BOOZE aren't happening this season

I think that's his point.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Ski resorts are suffering from no international workers.. Hunter had a ton of them.
Local people don't want the jobs...

 

[thetrailboss]

Food sales, gear and BOOZE aren't happening this season

Exactly. And if they are, the prices are jacked up.

I went to get some stocking stuffers at Snowbird the other day--1 small sticker, 2 sticker sheets (five stickers on each), 2 key chains, and 2 patches. The total came up $45.00.

And want to ski at Deer Valley tomorrow? Non-holiday? Only $229 for an adult ticket.

 

[thetrailboss]

Thats the point. Big hit to the bottom line..Have to cut somewhere..Lifts, snow making...

Shitty weather on both coasts so far. We will see if this takes out some players over the next year.

 

[njdiver85]

Staffing issues at Mount Snow for sure. Probably missing a bunch of lift mechanics / lift ops as well.

 

[kingslug]

Lack of constant maintenance will fuck everything up for sure..I guarantee that...
They don't owe us snowmaking..They don't owe us a 100% open mountain when weather sux.
They do owe us lifts that operate correctly and safely..

 

[icecoast1]

Thats the point. Big hit to the bottom line..Have to cut somewhere..Lifts, snow making...

Add grooming to that list as well. Wait until feb/march/april if we make it that far, cutbacks are only going to be worse

 

[Katahdin]

.

And want to ski at Deer Valley tomorrow? Non-holiday? Only $229 for an adult ticket.

Holy s**t! That's one ticket walk-up rate?

 

[thetrailboss]

.


Holy s**t! That's one ticket walk-up rate?

Yes.

 

[NYDB]

If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

 

[ss20]

So..everyone is asking why? Why are lifts not running. Why are lifts breaking down. Lack of staff, etc. Anyone know how much a resort makes off the other stuff we all buy while we are there. Vail and other companies already have your pass money..so thats in the bank. But what about food sales, gear, and BOOZE..that a biggie. We all know they are looking at spread sheets way more than the weather. They know you are going to come regardless of the weather ( well most of us).

I hear business is up. Looks like that to me too. Not just at my mountain but everywhere I've been. I was at Windham today- packed like a weekend. The local ski shop said sales were strong, that's here in CT. And that was back in October.

I've been predicating that for every 10 skiers 9 will ski this winter, and that the 10th who does not will be replaced by someone who sees skiing as a safe, outdoor activity during this pandemic. I see that as holding true at the moment. I haven't heard of anecdotal stories where business is down this year.

Unfortunately business being up isn't a big help with capacity limits. Hypothetically, in a usual year you'd staff for 1,000 skier visits every Saturday December-March. The money-making days are when you staff for 1,000 but end up with 1,200 people on the hill. Now you're staffing for 500 and expect to hit 500...you can't get that extra couple hundred you need that's essentially pure profit. This is just an industry with too many fixed costs. Whether you're at 50% capacity or 100% capacity or 120% capacity you've got the same number of lift ops, same trails that need to be groomed, same lodges that need to be ran and cleaned each day. Sure you spin another lift or two on the busy busy days, and have another guy flipping burgers, but it's small change. On a Tuesday you still have to spend 75% of what you spent on Saturday, despite business being 20% of Saturday.

There's a few guys here that could answer better. All of these are number for example, btw- not real, just to prove a point from my 1,000 foot view of the industry and my understanding of it all from insider hear-say.

 

[andrec10]

Yes.

It went up 50 bucks since last season! That place is worth the coin though!

 

[1dog]

I hear business is up. Looks like that to me too. Not just at my mountain but everywhere I've been. I was at Windham today- packed like a weekend. The local ski shop said sales were strong, that's here in CT. And that was back in October.

I've been predicating that for every 10 skiers 9 will ski this winter, and that the 10th who does not will be replaced by someone who sees skiing as a safe, outdoor activity during this pandemic. I see that as holding true at the moment. I haven't heard of anecdotal stories where business is down this year.

Unfortunately business being up isn't a big help with capacity limits. Hypothetically, in a usual year you'd staff for 1,000 skier visits every Saturday December-March. The money-making days are when you staff for 1,000 but end up with 1,200 people on the hill. Now you're staffing for 500 and expect to hit 500...you can't get that extra couple hundred you need that's essentially pure profit. This is just an industry with too many fixed costs. Whether you're at 50% capacity or 100% capacity or 120% capacity you've got the same number of lift ops, same trails that need to be groomed, same lodges that need to be ran and cleaned each day. Sure you spin another lift or two on the busy busy days, and have another guy flipping burgers, but it's small change. On a Tuesday you still have to spend 75% of what you spent on Saturday, despite business being 20% of Saturday.

There's a few guys here that could answer better. All of these are number for example, btw- not real, just to prove a point from my 1,000 foot view of the industry and my understanding of it all from insider hear-say.

Like airplanes flying coast to coast - or anywhere for that matter - costs are essentially the same with 300 passengers or 30 on it.

 

[RichT]

Dear valley will never see me there! When I can go next door to Park City.

 

[FBGM]

Dear valley will never see me there! When I can go next door to Park City.

Lol you drunks?

 

[FBGM]

PS. Currently a bean counter/analytics guru in not ski biz but with 10+ Previous years in mountain ops management. I could write a book on what is going on and sprinkle in my speculation. I just don’t have the time time or energy to dive into it all, even tho I’m blacked out skiing the next week + (that’s racist they call it that). I’m sending it 1 state over to the state of sin to go gamble with my mask on. Will either win money or win Covid.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Profit center contribution will vary notably from resort to resort and region to region. But for a very rough approximation of revenue contribution at a US ski resort, based loosely on NSAA data:

45% Mountain Access (lift tix, passes, etc.)
15% F&B
10% Ski School
10% Lodging
7% Retail
5% Rental
8% Misc./Other