Are We a Society of Beggars?

[andyzee]

I posted this on KZone and figured I'd post here as well to get some opinions and give us a change from the recent best of theme Moderators, if you feel that his falls into the politcal catagory and doesn't belong here, I apologize ahead of time and have no objection to you deleting it:

It appears that the season is starting again, that being beggar season. I think anyone that knows me, knows I'm not stingy, but I am getting tired of seeing people with there hands out everywhere I go. I mean don't get me wrong, I can understand charities, but lately around me, especially the next town over, there are people collecting for any little thing they can thing of. I left the house this morning and went to the post office, couple of kids collecting for some school project or something. Went to the next town, as I drove in there were people on each street coming into the intersection collecting for the Boys Scouts. Stop at the supermarket on that intersection, there were a couple of kids collecting for the High School football team. Go inside the supermarket, there is someone collecting for Autism research, this I see nothing wrong with, but by now I am so disgusted for by the others I can't be bothered with anything but taking care of my business and going home.

Charities I have no problem with, damn, even panhandlers I have no problem with. But when kids are sent out in the streets to solicit money for extra ciricular activities, I have a problem on a number of different levels:

1) When I was growing up, the parents took care of their kids needs.
2) Having people standing in the middle of the street plain and simple is a hazard.
3) Are we teaching our kids that if you need something, well just go and stick your hand out. I mean what's wrong with organizing a car wash or a cookie sale. Teach them to earn their money. I'm happy to contribute in instances like this.


My rant of the day. Thank you

 

[riverc0il]

This looks like it has the potential of going political. Let's make an effort to stear this thread away from the political and keep it on the sociological level (though the two are tied together to the point of being blurred often times).

I used to be part of a high school organization that did "tag days." Fact is, the problem isn't that parents are not taking care of their kids, but that society isn't taking care of its kids. That is what tag days are all about, society pitching in a little to help kids do extra curricular activities. When I was in High School, I was not charged a red cent to play sports, be in the band, or pursue other extra curriculuar activities. Now, most non-academic activities cost kids a lot of money. What does a poor family that has no money do? Not have their kids play sports or do after school activities? That puts the kid on the streets after school and in a position to get into trouble. After school activities are a very important aspect of society that keep kids away from the potential to cause trouble and doing positive things.

You want to not see kids collecting money on tag days? Talk to your local City Councellor or School Committee member or State Representative about properly funding those extra curricular activities. Many families can not afford a couple hundred dollars to let their kid play football. I would rather have that kid playing football than joining a gang or "hanging out" causing trouble. It is like the saying goes... it takes a village...

 

[andyzee]

Steve, I agree that it may be difficult for parents in some cases to come up with money that is needed and there may be a need to have kids come up with the money on their own. All I am saying is they should teach kids some values and come up with ways to earn the money as opposed to standing in the street with their hands out. The quickest example I could think of is the car wash, I have frequented these many times. For one, I get my car washed by hand, 2. I'm helping the kids. Another example that I do not object to is Girl Scout cookies. In each case they are doing something to earn, they are not standing with their hands out. And I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to earn, damn, letting the kids thing of ways would in itself be a benificial lesson.

 

[ckofer]

As a parent, I'm tired of my kids being coerced to sell crap.

 

[andyzee]

As a parent, I'm tired of my kids being coerced to sell crap.

Can't say I agree with that either, but at least they're doing something to earn money. Now how would you like if they were asked to go stand in the street or outside of a store with a can and collect money from passing cars or people walking into the store?

 

[NYDrew]

For the most unexperienced of kids, standing on a corner with a cup is work. Jobs are getting harder to come by for younger kids..sometimes this is the best they can do.

 

[andyzee]

For the most unexperienced of kids, standing on a corner with a cup is work. Jobs are getting harder to come by for younger kids..sometimes this is the best they can do.

I'm not saying they should get a job. I'm saying that instead of standing around looking for handouts, they should have a drive of somekind. Car wash is a perfect example. I think looking for handouts is just a bad example and teaching them the wrong thing.

 

[riverc0il]

Car Washes are great. But how many Car Washes can so many teams, sports, activities, etc. do before the market is saturated on a nice Summer day? And it is harder to do Car Washes in the Fall, Spring, and Winter.

Here is my thought about that: most stuff the groups "sell" to raise money are worthless items that no body wants. I used to go door to door in Middle School raising money for trips and other activities selling crap like candles, wrapping paper, etc. Fund Raising, woo hoo! No one wanted the crap, they just bought it to support the activity. I think funding without getting something back is better. That way 100% of your money goes to the organization instead of only 25% or what ever is left after the supplies needed for the Car Wash or what ever else are used up. Donating expecting something in return is bad karma.

 

[andyzee]

Car wash was just one idea. With regards to other seasons, well, I don't see them standing around collecting anytime except during warm weather. Bad Karma, sorry, but I find the lesson that kids are learning here far worst than bad karma. Lesson being, you need something, put your hand out. Just my opinions, don't mean diddly.

 

[riverc0il]

andy, those tag days ARE work. having done several as a kid, i HATED them. but many groups required them. far from begging, it was a royal pain in the butt. we want to encourage kids to earn their money, and that is fine by me. start them out at the grochery store when they reach the age they can get a work permit. i don't see that being related to school fund raisers. if school's were properly funded, kids wouldn't need to do fund raisers. just my opinion too

 

[Marc]

Marc's easy 2 part solution:

Part 1) Stop having kids

Part 2) Send the current ones to work in the salt mines.



Have a nice day!

 

[JimG.]

As a parent, I'm tired of my kids being coerced to sell crap.

As a fellow parent, I thank you.

I'm not sending my kids out on the streets to get money...my kid's school/club/team is doing it. And I totally agree with Steve, it's because these activities are underfunded.

My wife and I don't allow our kids to do that stuff. It's dangerous because the streets and homes out there are filled with all kinds of creepy people who are just waiting for an innocent kid to ring the doorbell or approach them for money. No thank you!

If we can afford it, we just write a check; if we can't, that's tough. We keep it simple.

 

[Greg]

If we can afford it, we just write a check; if we can't, that's tough. We keep it simple.

Probably a good approach.

 

[ctenidae]

I agree with Marc, to a very large extent.

More on topic, I don't recall ever having to do anything to raise any money for any school-related activity. I think the Athletic Association did some sort of fundraiser every year, but it was done by the parents. Band Parents raised the money to buy new uniforms. During morning break the FBLA ran a snack stand, but that was more of an educational experience than a money-maker (though the money they made went to paying for FBLA conferences). On yearbook staff, we paid for the books by selling ads, so I guess that counts.

Are schools that woefully underfunded now? I don't have any kids (things like this are reasons #4,267-4,300), so I'm not in tune with what's going on. I do agree that there's the potential for teaching a bad lesson. If nothing else, kids should be spending their time learning, not raising money for something. I figure the sleaziest businessmen in teh world are the ones who sell the fundraiser supplies. They're below used car dealers and insurance salesmen, in my book.

 

[JimG.]

I agree with Marc, to a very large extent.

More on topic, I don't recall ever having to do anything to raise any money for any school-related activity. I think the Athletic Association did some sort of fundraiser every year, but it was done by the parents. Band Parents raised the money to buy new uniforms. During morning break the FBLA ran a snack stand, but that was more of an educational experience than a money-maker (though the money they made went to paying for FBLA conferences). On yearbook staff, we paid for the books by selling ads, so I guess that counts.

Are schools that woefully underfunded now? I don't have any kids (things like this are reasons #4,267-4,300), so I'm not in tune with what's going on. I do agree that there's the potential for teaching a bad lesson. If nothing else, kids should be spending their time learning, not raising money for something. I figure the sleaziest businessmen in teh world are the ones who sell the fundraiser supplies. They're below used car dealers and insurance salesmen, in my book.

Schools have pretty much stopped doing it in my area because of an incident a few years ago where an 11 year old selling fundraiser stuff door to door was abducted, sexually abused, and murdered by one of his neighbors. And please, before anyone starts with the NY insults, don't fool yourself into thinking that can't happen in your neighborhood too.

Most of the fundraising you see today is sports, club, or scouting related. Each year I sign my 2 oldest boys up for travel teams I'm asked to sign a form committing my family to a certain amount of fundraising. Allegedly that's a requirement. I refuse to sign it and instead ask them what amount of money they would like in the form of a check. So far, that hasn't been a problem.

And if you think I'm not teaching my boys the right lessons, here's the lesson I teach them...if you can afford to play soccer, you pay for it. If you can't afford it, you don't play. You will not see my kids with credit cards so they can "buy" things they don't have the money to pay for. Nor will they go door to door guilting other people into supporting their activities. For the first time this year, David and Peter voluntarily took a part of their allowances and gave it to me to help with this requirement.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's a lesson well learned.

 

[JimG.]

Marc's easy 2 part solution:

Part 1) Stop having kids

Part 2) Send the current ones to work in the salt mines.



Have a nice day!

You should think about that statement.

I dare say you wouldn't be around to make it if your parents thought that way.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Well said JimmyG., I'm the same way.

 

[noski]

And if you think I'm not teaching my boys the right lessons, here's the lesson I teach them...if you can afford to play soccer, you pay for it. If you can't afford it, you don't play. You will not see my kids with credit cards so they can "buy" things they don't have the money to pay for. Nor will they go door to door guilting other people into supporting their activities. For the first time this year, David and Peter voluntarily took a part of their allowances and gave it to me to help with this requirement.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's a lesson well learned.

I'm with you. My daughter wanted a computer. She had to save up her money from babysitting and went into Small Dog Electronics and paid $1100 cash. She was 12. They asked her then and there if she wanted to work there. She started there as an intern the week after she turned 14. She's been there 3 years+.

 

[andyzee]

And if you think I'm not teaching my boys the right lessons, here's the lesson I teach them...if you can afford to play soccer, you pay for it. If you can't afford it, you don't play. You will not see my kids with credit cards so they can "buy" things they don't have the money to pay for. Nor will they go door to door guilting other people into supporting their activities. For the first time this year, David and Peter voluntarily took a part of their allowances and gave it to me to help with this requirement.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's a lesson well learned.

I wish more parents had that attitude. I know when I was growing up, that's just the way it was.

 

[Marc]

You should think about that statement.

I dare say you wouldn't be around to make it if your parents thought that way.

You mean you didn't work the salt mines as a kid?



I don't know what you mean anyway, my father is still trying to have a 93rd trimester abortion on what my mother calls her "favorite mistake."