Are We Now Spoiled Lazy Skiers/Riders??!

[thetrailboss]

Some good discussion in here about the philosophical question I put forward. Remember, the title does not express my view, but was just a question I was throwing out to generate conversation.

I think overall skiers/riders are less adventurous than they used to be. For alot of us here, the adventure part can be as much fun and satisfying as the skiing itself.

Yeah, this is the direction that I saw this conversation going and this is what I've heard from the 'purists' of the sport. Is there any merit to this assertion?

As mentioned, without lifts or groomed slopes, few would partake in the sport now. But also think about some of the unintended consequences that we now have (increased lift ticket prices, more crowds, etc)? :idea:

 

[bvibert]

But I like cutting down trees with a herring!

When do you want your shrubbery?

Good catch, I was wondering who would catch that first

 

[jimme]

Sounds like our parents with the old "When I was your age I had to walk to school. . ."

Life itself is so much easier than it used to be. People complaining about the modern conveniences we have today are probably jealous because they didn't have them.

Are we spoiled? No. How about some credit for getting off the couch and getting outside in the winter? Learning to ski is not easy regardless of what PSIA would have us believe. Anyone who skis and boards has at least the moxie to give it a go.

Is it easier than it was 50 years ago? Yes! Warren Miller has a story about skiing today comapred with skiing in the 40's - 50's. He was there and said he much prefers the modern equipment, grooming and lifts that we have today. I agree.

Today, we seem to have it all. High speed lifts, heated Gondolas, five star dining, and for the adventurous- backcountry. There's Tele, Snowboarding, Cross country, Randonee', etc.

Something for just about everyone. What I'd like to see is what might be happening. Ski areas catering to a more specific skier/rider. Rather than be all things to all people, find the niche and fill it. You want old style skiing- there's MRG, Plattekill, Magic and Bobcat to name a few. Want glitz- Stratton, Stowe A combination- Sugarbush, Smuggs. And then there's Kmart- where there's a department for just about everything.

We may not be spoiled, but we sure are "rich". And for those of us in the Northeast, we have such a vast variety of ski areas in a close geographical area that may be unmatched worldwide.

 

[hammer]

But I like cutting down trees with a herring!

When do you want your shrubbery?

Good catch, I was wondering who would catch that first

I guess I'm not as much of a Monty Python fan as I thought...
Or it's that my case of CRS is getting worse...

 

[riverc0il]

i dunno if i would call any skiers lazy. lazy people stay at home while others go out during the winter and are active. though when you had to earn every turn you made back in the day, obviously a higher level of physical condition and technique was required.

technology and education has given a very high percentage of skiers great technique on groomed terrain. this is where most ski areas have expanded their offerings the most, diminishing the old fashioned classic narrow windy trail with no snow making in place of a easier to ski slope that accomodates higher crowds. i am always amazed at how many people are carving these days compared to just a few short years ago. you rarely see people skidding turns unless they are new to the activity. so technology has elevated more and more people to a proficiency with inbounds skiing as we know it today. would today's skier be able to hack it 60 years ago? doubtful, but would the same skier of today even want to? doubtful again. it was a different time with different expectations.

people today reflect back on people who used to hike up for a single run down, and they ask how could that be enjoyable as they lap 2000 verts on a high speed quad all day. well, people still do it today and it's often times more satisfying than that full day of 2000 vert runs. quality of quantity.

there seems to be a definite split in the skiing population in which lots of folks like the modern ski experience. the other side of the skiing world looks back and longs for the old days. the later part of the population still has plenty of places to find that ski experience thankfully, but not nearly as many as before.

i think it just takes a single run down one of the old classic trails to turn someone forever towards that later part of the population. people honestly don't know what they are missing, but ignorance is bliss in this case. it just took me one run and i was forever turned towards the older ski experience that can still be found.

TB... any older timers complaining about modern lifts are hacks. if they don't enjoy the lift serviced experience, they should give up skiing or find the classics that still remain and hike um'.

 

[riverc0il]

"Or is it that the skiing has never been better because more can enjoy it during a longer season thanks to such technological advances?"

Lenght of season is a big plus. Back in the day when you had to depend on the real stuff you often started the season late amd finished early. Plus high speed lifts have gotten rid of those long lines.

length of season has nothing to do with modern times. back in the day they were skiing just as long. a lot of natural snow trails were still open this month when ski areas started shutting down because people weren't showing up....

also regarding technology, it could be argued opposite that technology has made skiing so accessable that most slope conditions get withered away by the masses of people that didn't exist "back in the day." scraping sounds on ski slopes is one of the worst sounds associated with the sport.

 

[billski]

30 years ago

I learned to ski 30 years ago, just as technology was attempting to tame the equipment. Fiberglass skis were quite the rage, but you still saw woodies now and then. Cubco bindings were the thing to have, but they scared the h*** out of most people, everyone called them the "ankle breakers". That they were. I saw the new-fangled plastic-shelled boots crack in half, skis delaminate midrun and bindings bust right off the skis on a bump. Remember runaway skis? It was a long way down the hill on one ski. The woodie skis just snapped right in half, but strap on bindings just fell right off. People were a lot more worried about getting hurt than today. I'd say the equipment has "matured". We're through the growth phase and into the "tweak" phase.

Hard on the legs. All lifts were surface lifts. So you stood ALL DAY. No rest for the weary on a sit-down lift. Tbar, Jbar, poma, rope, and on. Spend 6 hours on the Pomas at Okemo and you were ready for a nursing home. You really had to have much stronger legs. Lift lines of 20-30 minutes were common, mostly due to the slow lifts.

When the chairs did come in, they stopped a lot. It sure gets cold sitting on a chair for 20-30 minutes while they figure out what to fix on this new-fangled thing.

Snowmaking? Sometimes. probably not. There were always bare spots and rocks to be seen. Your job to work around them.

I think skiers were stronger and braver back then.
Then again, we never got the speed, took the chances we take today. Perfectly groomed trails were never expected or known.

Tickets were never stratospheric, so we never complained.

Today, when I'm spending megabucks for a ticket, I expect to ski down, not up, and get lots of time on the trails.

'nuff for now. It's dinnertime.

 

[severine]

length of season has nothing to do with modern times. back in the day they were skiing just as long. a lot of natural snow trails were still open this month when ski areas started shutting down because people weren't showing up....

For those of us who can't get up to VT and NH often, length of season is DRAMATICALLY influenced by snowmaking. The snow was long gone around here before the local areas closed...snowmaking is what kept them alive this year. It's also what enabled them to open before Christmas since there was no natural stuff to be found. Yeah, it might not make a big difference on the "real" mountains, but it does for what's easily accessible around here. And I for one am grateful for it!

 

[Ig ODC]

Some good discussion in here about the philosophical question I put forward. Remember, the title does not express my view, but was just a question I was throwing out to generate conversation.

I think overall skiers/riders are less adventurous than they used to be. For alot of us here, the adventure part can be as much fun and satisfying as the skiing itself.

Yeah, this is the direction that I saw this conversation going and this is what I've heard from the 'purists' of the sport. Is there any merit to this assertion?

As mentioned, without lifts or groomed slopes, few would partake in the sport now. But also think about some of the unintended consequences that we now have (increased lift ticket prices, more crowds, etc)? :idea:

Wait a minute, skiers/riders are MUCH MUCH MUCH more adventurous than they used to be. I have no idea how anyone could have a different opinion. The backcountry scene has blossomed so much in the past 10 years or so. I remember back in the day in UT you'd see a few tracks in the backcountry, now the terrain can get chopped up pretty seriously by all the skiers. Everyone wants to go out of bounds. Look how they opened the gates at Jackson a few years ago. Look how many people are skiing the woods at the New England resorts. There is definitely more adventure in skiing now than ever before. The resorts now list and "sell" their glades, where back in the day they tried to tell you not to go in the woods.

 

[skintowin]

Gone are the salad days of the CCC trail aesthetic. In the old days, trails were designed to spark the imagination of skiers. Nowadays, the focus is on accommodating grooming machines and fake snow. How can skiers be expected to enjoy trails when they were put there for the benefit of machines?

While an occasional groom can be a good thing at the right time, many areas seem to do it every day, regardless of the conditions. And as for these megaresorts that groom all their trails on powder days - that's just plain wrong!

And then there's the man made snow. Yes, it extends the season and provides weeks of good corn skiing through the spring, but the bulk of the season is pretty darn cold around here. And the fake stuff hardens up like Middlebury marble, especially when it gets buffed down by the groomers every night.

A lot of people say the terrain at MRG is the scariest in the east, but I'm never more terrified than when I suddenly find myself skittering accross a sheet of man-made glass. I'd rather hit a birch tree at 5 mph than lose my edges and go sailing into a mogul field at 50. If you ask me, the scariest terrain is at the big money resorts in the middle of a cold snap. It's hard to dodge all those gapers when you can't get an edge to (literally) save you life. Then again, maybe my edges are just to dull from turning on all those rocks at the Glen.

If you really want to know what a ski trail should feel like, take a hike up any of the beautiful museum pieces around New England - the Teardrop, Steeple, and Bruce trails on Mansfield, the Thunderbolt on Mt. Greylock, the Sherburne on Washington - and there's plenty more hiding out there in those woods. Once you experience a trail that was cut purely for the enjoyment of skiing, you'll have a hard time going back to the modern ski factory.

I guess this is all a matter of opinion. And I'm sure one day I'll be old and frail and will be grateful for my creamed corn and groomed trails. Of course, by then all the oil will be gone and there will be no more grooming anyway.

 

[JimG.]

And I'm sure one day I'll be old and frail and will be grateful for my creamed corn and groomed trails.

Not me...hopefully a few of the old school areas will continue on. I agree with the other things you say. My kids would agree too; my 2 oldest boys (11 and 9) had their first real epic powder day at MRG in early March, and now they tell me they're bored skiing at Hunter.

Here's to continuing the tradition :beer: !