Are We Seeing the End of Regular Season Passes?

[machski]

In terms of actual single area passes, I don't think I've had one of those since my college years in the early 90's at SR. That added Attitash not too long into the decade. Since then, I've had the ASC pass until I moved to WI for a year. When we came back, we had the ASC for one more year then went to the Booth Creek Threedom pass for the next several season before Boyne bought SR/SL/Loon and dropped the NEP, which we've had since. Did the Max add ons in those years, last year we both added an Ikon base pass to our NEP's. This year only I added an Ikon base as Mrs doesn't get out as much to K/SB as I do in East and if we go west in February, decided to go-to Big Sky where we get 3 free days off our NEP Gold passes (and I get 5 more on Ikon base) and then unlimited 50% offs.

So in my little world, even without being totally in line with the big 4 letter word passes, we haven't been single area pass holders in like 2 decades +. Are single passes dead? No, especially at remote areas that are not fully integrated to a large pass (JH, BS, SV, Taos, Telluride, SB/Alta, Deer, Killy come to mind) or remote areas that are doing well without any partner relationship to the 4 letters (Whitefish strikes me as a strong example there, maybe Schwitzer secondly). But I feel like areas will band together regionally at a minimum to expand reach and offerings in more strategic alliances, even if small compared to the 4 letter ones

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[cdskier]

Alterra will piss a lot of people off if they don't offer an unlimited/unrestricted Sugarbush only season pass

Why do you think that? If they don't offer an unlimited/unrestricted SB only pass next year, then that means SB is unlimited on presumably the full Ikon pass. In that case the early pass price difference was $100 (Ikon was 949 last year and SB adult unlimited was 849). So for $100 more you'd be getting unlimited SB plus access to quite a few other places. Even if the Ikon price goes up a bit, it would still be cheaper than we were paying for a stand-alone SB adult pass just a few years ago.

Now the people that could be pissed off would be the people using one of the other SB pass products (either age specific, Mt Ellen value pass, or boomer passes). I think presumably at least some of those still end up being offered though to at least keep locals in the valley that use a lot of those happy.

I'm sorry to say that a lot of people are going to be pissed off. They may offer it but it will cost more than now.

Why? If it costs much more than it currently does, then it ends up being more expensive than the Ikon pass. In that case why would anyone pay more for a single-resort pass to an Alterra owned property than the Ikon with SB unlimited on it (assuming that was the scenario they used). The only scenario where I could see what you say make sense is if Alterra decides to make Sugarbush a "super-premium" area and restricts it somehow even on the full Ikon. Then a stand-alone "Premium" pass would be the only way to get unlimited access. I don't particularly think that is too likely though (although I do kind of selfishly like the idea to keep crowds down).

 

[Pez]

A lot of good responses. Here are a few comments....



Did you expect that deal on a Holiday Week?

no, no i didn't. just a point of how expensive things have gotten at the window.

i fully feel the deal will be gone next year as well. probably just going to budget for an epic pass next year.

 

[JimG.]

Assuming on at least the full Ikon SB becomes unlimited, how will that be at most significantly more than a current unlimited SB only pass next year?

Folks who don't care about skiing out west or at other eastern resorts will have to pay for those upgrades even if they ski at SB only. That will cost more and there won't be an SB only pass anymore. That's going to be a rude awakening for Peaks resorts passholders next year as well. Sure, they will slowly up the cost but up the cost will go.

You may think that's a good deal because maybe you want to ski out west. I assure you there are many eastern skiers who care not about western skiing. And if I owned property at SB (like cdskier) that's a particularly hard pill to swallow.

 

[urungus]

Folks who don't care about skiing out west or at other eastern resorts will have to pay for those upgrades even if they ski at SB only.

Wouldn’t that be evened out by folks who buy the pass but don’t care about skiing SB or any eastern resorts ?

 

[cdskier]

Folks who don't care about skiing out west or at other eastern resorts will have to pay for those upgrades even if they ski at SB only. That will cost more and there won't be an SB only pass anymore. That's going to be a rude awakening for Peaks resorts passholders next year as well. Sure, they will slowly up the cost but up the cost will go.

You may think that's a good deal because maybe you want to ski out west. I assure you there are many eastern skiers who care not about western skiing. And if I owned property at SB (like cdskier) that's a particularly hard pill to swallow.

I'm in the category of eastern skiers that don't care about western skiing (and I'm a SB property owner as you pointed out). Yet I still don't know that I agree with you. In my previous post I pointed out the price difference ($100). Personally for me I only see some potential value in K/Pico out of other Ikon resorts (Stratton has no appeal to me and the Boyne resorts are a bit too far). But 7 days at K/Pico for an extra $100 isn't that hard of a pill to swallow. I could potentially get some runs in now either before SB opens or after they close. Or even do a day at Pico on my way home one weekend from SB. I've wanted to go back there for a while and that would be an incentive to do so.

Even if I didn't use any days at other Ikon resorts though, the Ikon price is still lower than the SB pass price from a few years ago (a full unlimited adult SB pass was $1149 in April 2016). I think one problem is people forget how high some of the pass prices were getting up to until Epic entered the eastern market with the Stowe acquisition and caused other resorts (like SB) to drop prices.

 

[mbedle]

Out of all of the resorts that Alterra owns, Deer Valley is the only one that is not offered unlimited access on the Ikon pass. I highly doubt that Sugarbush would be the second one not included on the unlimited Ikon pass. All of the Alterra resorts offer resort only season passes. Some of them are unlimited and some are restricted. Some of them are cheaper than the Ikon Pass and some are more expensive (but offer some additional benefits (i.e., Steamboats is more expensive, but include 10 extra lift tickets for friends and family). Given that Stratton has full access on the Ikon and also offers multiple and cheaper Stratton only passes, I would venture to guess that Sugarbush will be structured the same way. Slightly cheaper Sugarbush only pass with restriction or go full Ikon for unlimited skiing.

 

[JimG.]

I'm in the category of eastern skiers that don't care about western skiing (and I'm a SB property owner as you pointed out). Yet I still don't know that I agree with you. In my previous post I pointed out the price difference ($100). Personally for me I only see some potential value in K/Pico out of other Ikon resorts (Stratton has no appeal to me and the Boyne resorts are a bit too far). But 7 days at K/Pico for an extra $100 isn't that hard of a pill to swallow. I could potentially get some runs in now either before SB opens or after they close. Or even do a day at Pico on my way home one weekend from SB. I've wanted to go back there for a while and that would be an incentive to do so.

Even if I didn't use any days at other Ikon resorts though, the Ikon price is still lower than the SB pass price from a few years ago (a full unlimited adult SB pass was $1149 in April 2016). I think one problem is people forget how high some of the pass prices were getting up to until Epic entered the eastern market with the Stowe acquisition and caused other resorts (like SB) to drop prices.

Damn I don't want you skiing at K! Just kidding.

Fair enough but I think there are others who won't rationalize it as well as you. From much of what I've seen on this site regarding pricing and cheapness many will go apoplectic about a $100 price increase IF​ that's all it amounts to.

BG has beaten this drum repeatedly and I agree that these great deals will over time become very expensive for everyone. Remember the MAX pass?

 

[thetrailboss]

Out of all of the resorts that Alterra owns, Deer Valley is the only one that is not offered unlimited access on the Ikon pass. I highly doubt that Sugarbush would be the second one not included on the unlimited Ikon pass. All of the Alterra resorts offer resort only season passes. Some of them are unlimited and some are restricted. Some of them are cheaper than the Ikon Pass and some are more expensive (but offer some additional benefits (i.e., Steamboats is more expensive, but include 10 extra lift tickets for friends and family). Given that Stratton has full access on the Ikon and also offers multiple and cheaper Stratton only passes, I would venture to guess that Sugarbush will be structured the same way. Slightly cheaper Sugarbush only pass with restriction or go full Ikon for unlimited skiing.

The Aspen areas are also limited, but technically Crown still owns them, not Alterra. Crown owns part of Alterra.

 

[JimG.]

Wouldn’t that be evened out by folks who buy the pass but don’t care about skiing SB or any eastern resorts ?

I think you missed my point I'm talking only about SB skiers.

Why would SB skiers care about things being "evened out" by non-SB skiers?

 

[JimG.]

Out of all of the resorts that Alterra owns, Deer Valley is the only one that is not offered unlimited access on the Ikon pass. I highly doubt that Sugarbush would be the second one not included on the unlimited Ikon pass. All of the Alterra resorts offer resort only season passes. Some of them are unlimited and some are restricted. Some of them are cheaper than the Ikon Pass and some are more expensive (but offer some additional benefits (i.e., Steamboats is more expensive, but include 10 extra lift tickets for friends and family). Given that Stratton has full access on the Ikon and also offers multiple and cheaper Stratton only passes, I would venture to guess that Sugarbush will be structured the same way. Slightly cheaper Sugarbush only pass with restriction or go full Ikon for unlimited skiing.

So pay less to ski less at your home mountain or pay more to ski the same amount. That's a good deal?

 

[thetrailboss]

So pay less to ski less at your home mountain or pay more to ski the same amount. That's a good deal?

:lol:

Ssshhhhh....don't let out their secret.

 

[JimG.]

:lol:

Ssshhhhh....don't let out their secret.

The megapass disrespect for season passholders is stunning and will backfire on them eventually.

 

[thetrailboss]

The megapass disrespect for season passholders is stunning and will backfire on them eventually.

I completely agree. That level of disrespect is one of the things that led me to this question. I am really surprised how far Alta, Jackson Hole, and Aspen went to deny the reality of the situation and ignore passholder concerns. Although Jackson Hole and Aspen gave their passholders Ikon Base Passes to shut up, I mean as a peace offering. I still am waiting for mine from Alta/Snowbird.

 

[mbedle]

So pay less to ski less at your home mountain or pay more to ski the same amount. That's a good deal?

I am not really sure what you mean.

 

[mbedle]

The megapass disrespect for season passholders is stunning and will backfire on them eventually.

Are you talking specifically about an iKon pass that is being used at a non-Alttera owned mountain? And how exactly is it disrespectful to season pass holders? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

 

[mbedle]

The megapass disrespect for season passholders is stunning and will backfire on them eventually.

Are you talking specifically about an iKon pass that is being used at a non-Alttera owned mountain? And how exactly is it disrespectful to season pass holders? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

 

[abc]

Jackson Hole and Aspen gave their passholders Ikon Base Passes to shut up, I mean as a peace offering. I still am waiting for mine from Alta/Snowbird.

So THAT was it!

I didn't read this thread at all for 2 days. (granted I was a little "preoccupied" with powder surfing, the eastern kind the last 2 days too).

The bitching is reserved for non-skiing part of the year, or when there's no snow in the northeast. As of now, my interest in participating in the bitching had dropped significantly.

It's good entertainment though, when the powder finally got skied out.

 

[JimG.]

Are you talking specifically about an iKon pass that is being used at a non-Alttera owned mountain? And how exactly is it disrespectful to season pass holders? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

No, I'm talking about inviting Ikon passholders to season passholder parties or to season passholder opening day.

That's bullshit.

 

[snoseek]

The roads into lcc/bcc are fucking horrendous these days and it was straight up irresponsible for all the resorts to go all in on that pass. Trust me long time customers are pissed! I miss the mountain but that commute is the shittiest 12 miles ever.