"Artificial" Open Bowl Skiing in the East

[bvibert]

How much fun would 'open bowl' skiing be on man made snow?

 

[skiersleft]

Pretty much Stowe is the only one I can think of at this point and it is because, as DHS said, they were aiming to make it like Austria and make it different from the narrow treed in runs of the rest of the Northeast. Other "open," or formerly open areas of that era include possibly Cranmore.

Killington's wider terrain is from a much later era and again was in response to folks who skied out west and wanted wider terrain back east. So this monstrosity is due to that demand:

Before:

After (far right):

I agree the widening of the trails at Killington is not cool. I see a difference between widening trails and creating an open bowl feeling. Double Dipper may be wide, but it doesn't feel at all like open bowl skiing. Spruce Peak at the bottom feels much more like that. When you widen somewhat but not a lot, you get a weird hybrid that is neither here nor there. Not as cool as narrow fun New England type trails, nor as exhilarating as wide open bowl skiing.

 

[skiersleft]

How much fun would 'open bowl' skiing be on man made snow?

Fun. Not as fun as the real stuff, but fun. Just like with any other type of skiing. Natural is always better than manmade, but, hey. It's the east coast. I'd rather have tree skiing with man made than no tree skiing at all. Same with open bowl. I'd rather have some open bowl experience than no experience at all.

 

[Smellytele]

This was planned back in the 70's but never built
http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/NewHampshire/willardbasin.php

"A ravine was to be clearcut to 2,000 wide, to resemble Tuckerman Ravine on nearby Mt. Washington."

 

[WWF-VT]

Need more forest fires.

In 1908, a great forest fire in July burned across the north side of Sugarloaf toward Crocker Mountain with a total loss of about 5500 acres. This fire provided some of the “above treeline” skiing on Sugarloaf Mountain, which we enjoy today

http://www.carrabassettvalley.org/content/4007/Carrabassett_History_/

 

[skiersleft]

This was planned back in the 70's but never built
http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/NewHampshire/willardbasin.php

"A ravine was to be clearcut to 2,000 wide, to resemble Tuckerman Ravine on nearby Mt. Washington."

Wow! That's what I'm talking about. Interesting to see that the idea made it to the planning stage, so someone thought it was doable enough to come up with a plan to make it happen. Of course, it didn't happen, but I doubt that what doomed the project was the open bowl proposal.

 

[skiersleft]

Need more forest fires.

In 1908, a great forest fire in July burned across the north side of Sugarloaf toward Crocker Mountain with a total loss of about 5500 acres. This fire provided some of the “above treeline” skiing on Sugarloaf Mountain, which we enjoy today

http://www.carrabassettvalley.org/content/4007/Carrabassett_History_/

Interesting stuff.

 

[Talisman]

Mt Snow tried to simulate a western style bowl with the wide cut on "South Bowl". It suffers from wind scour, lack of snow, lack of pitch and sun scorch. Prevailing winds will put a swath of snow on the skiers left on the cut.

 

[4aprice]

I would say the Slides at Whiteface offer somewhat of the bowl type of atmosphere. (when they actually have enough snow to ski on). I thought I was going to get the chance to ski them last year on the last weekend of March but they were closed:angry:

While I would never want to see the mountain clear cut (I agree with Wa-loaf learn to ski the trees) Plattekill has the perfect bowl shape. The trails off of F lift at Hunter are kind of a bowl as well.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Nick]

Probably the best open bowl atmosphere anywhere is Tuckermans... but then again it's not lift-served :lol:

 

[skiersleft]

I would say the Slides at Whiteface offer somewhat of the bowl type of atmosphere. (when they actually have enough snow to ski on). I thought I was going to get the chance to ski them last year on the last weekend of March but they were closed:angry:

While I would never want to see the mountain clear cut (I agree with Wa-loaf learn to ski the trees) Plattekill has the perfect bowl shape. The trails off of F lift at Hunter are kind of a bowl as well.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

Seems like I wasn't clear the first time. I love skiing trees and can ski them pretty well. I just don't think we ought to have to choose between either one or the other. In a perfect world we could do both.

Never skied the Slides, but plan on doing so this year. Does it really provide somewhat of an open bowl experience?

 

[Nick]

What is that bridge looking thing running across the middle and up the mountain? It looks like some sort of monorail...

 

[Highway Star]

This has got to be one of the worst threads in the history of alpinezone.

 

[Smellytele]

What is that bridge looking thing running across the middle and up the mountain? It looks like some sort of monorail...

yes in the write up part it mentions a monorail. Attitash at one time was going to have one as well.

 

[wa-loaf]

This has got to be one of the worst threads in the history of alpinezone.

Like

 

[Nick]

This has got to be one of the worst threads in the history of alpinezone.

I vote we just dig up Mt. Washington, dump it on top of Cannon, and then smooth it out with a huge bulldozer. It would probably be over 10,000 feet tall and would kick ass :lol:

Don't tell me we can't build a new mt range!

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Sugarloaf is the only ski area in the East that offers open bowl skiing a la what's offered in Western resorts. And still, it's not exactly like Western resorts, as the area of above the tree line skiing is not really that extensive. You can, of course, go to Tuck's or some other backcountry to have the experience, but I'm talking about lift served open bowl skiing.

Why don't more eastern ski areas remove all the trees from the summit of some of their peaks in order to replicate an open bowl skiing experience. Don't get me wrong, I love tree skiing and classic New England trails. Much more character than wide freeways. However, there is something quite exhilarating and beautiful about wide open bowl skiing.

Is it just illegal to do something like this or do ski areas just have no interest in doing this?

This may be the most ill-informed idea I've read on this forum.

The reasons for why you wouldn't want to do this should be self-evident if you've skied for more than 5 minutes in the East. Aside from the obvious environmental roadblocks/issues, there is the small matter of wind blowing all of the snow elsewhere. Classic New England runs were cut in that manner b/c of the problems in the East with snow retention. You get less snow, more thaws and more wind here vs. the West, so in the days before snowmaking, you needed narrower runs that followed the contours of the mountain so that you had as much shadow and wind protection as possible.

Also, you are incorrect in stating that Sugarloaf is the only resort in the East offering this experience. With modest hikes (<30 minutes), you can enjoy this experience at both Stowe and Saddleback.

 

[skiersleft]

Also, you are incorrect in stating that Sugarloaf is the only resort in the East offering this experience. With modest hikes (<30 minutes), you can enjoy this experience at both Stowe and Saddleback.

First, be nice. It was just an idea. I assumed it was not doable and just wanted reasons. I have skied more than 5 minutes in the east coast. Actually skied over 80 days last season.

Second, be fair. I did say that I was looking for lift served open bowl skiing. If you need to hike, it's not lift served. Stowe, Saddleback and Slides at Whiteface don't count then, at least according to the conventional understanding of what counts as lift served terrain.

 

[Nick]

Don't you have to hike to get above the treeline at Sugarloaf?

As in bvibert's avi

 

[skiersleft]

Don't you have to hike to get above the treeline at Sugarloaf?

As in bvibert's avi

Not supposed to be that way. Although I've never had the pleasure of skiing them, I believe that the deal is you get off the lift, walk literally two minutes to the radio tower and head down. Walking for 2 minutes doesn't count as a hike.