Belleayre and NYS Budget Cuts

[jamesdeluxe]

I have people say Tony Lanza (Belleayre's superintendent) is a nice guy and then they say Belleayre has been mismanaged. So which is it?

The claims of mismangement aren't directed at Tony, but at the state/DEC level.

I've asked this question before and never got an answer... why have the Greene County ski areas only recently decided that Belleayre's policies are bad for their bottom line? What is Belleayre doing differently, as far as pricing, from what it's been doing for the past 20 years? Not trying to start an argument, I'd really like to know.

 

[RENO]

Haven't been to Belleayre before and decided we were gonna hit it this season and look what happens? :???: :evil:

 

[dmc]

Sorry. I'll behave now.

Dude... do that voodo that you do so well...

 

[ed-drum]

I made a phone call to this morning to some people who have been connected to Belleayre for decades. Hopefully I'll get some inside info on what is going on with Belleayre in the next day or two. The mis-management of money in this country is getting out of hand. This is a bad situation. I have friends who work up here at the ski areas, hotels, restaurants, stores, etc., and it is going to be a trickle down effect for the local economy. Real estate people who sell houses around here are being forced to quit their house selling jobs and are looking for work elsewhere. Young people who work at the ski areas are concerned, for jobs will be cut further. My ski teaching friends are concerned. My bartender friends are worried stiff. Hunter has turned into a ghost town in the last five years. No more places to listen to live music. Woodstock has hardly any live music. Yes, it has some but they are forced to charge a too high entry fee to survive. Are Whiteface, Gore and places like Jones beach next?

 

[SkiDork]

Dude... do that voodo that you do so well...

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Suggest you read today's position editorial at The Daily Freeman.

snip--->>>

Providing low-cost public facilities -- such as ski resorts, golf courses and camping facilities -- is part of what governments should do. Citizens without the wherewithal or opportunity to recreate at private facilities are thereby given an affordable alternative.

Belleayre Mountain Ski Center is a state-owned facility, on a mountain owned by citizens of the state of New York, offering reasonably priced lift tickets and an extended skiing season.

By almost any measure, such elaboration of recreational opportunities for state residents is a good thing. And it's particularly true in an industry that, by its nature, tends toward oligopoly since ski-able mountains are a limited resource.

Moreover, the development of Belleayre into an attractive operation was a conscious state policy encouraged by leaders in this region during the 1990s. It was a direct, well-considered response to the erosion of IBM employment in the Mid-Hudson Valley, an effort to grow the tourism-based economy of the entire region. The partnership between the state and the privately financed Belleayre Resort proposal is the fruition of that conscious policy to grow the regional economy.

By that measure, too, the state commitment to providing recreational opportunities at Belleayre is validated.​

My concern is mismanagement of my $$....

you keep griping about mismanagement of $$, dmc, but the other side of the equation is expressed pretty well by that editorial thinnmann added to the thread.

you can make a rational argument that losing money on the daily operation of belleayre is worthwhile because it encourages economic activity in the region.

i don't have the numbers, but maybe the extra tax revenue generated by the increased business stemming from government-subsidized skiing pays for the losses at belleayre? and, even if the funds aren't totally recouped, maybe having an affordable service being provided to the public is a good thing?

i don't know what the right answer is....and the debate would definitely end up being political, but i think that criticizing belleayre for wasting tax dollars is an unhelpful over-simplification....

 

[dmc]

The claims of mismangement aren't directed at Tony, but at the state/DEC level.

I've asked this question before and never got an answer... why have the Greene County ski areas only recently decided that Belleayre's policies are bad for their bottom line? What is Belleayre doing differently, as far as pricing, from what it's been doing for the past 20 years? Not trying to start an argument, I'd really like to know.

Greene county ski areas have been worried about this since it was announced...

Belleayre gives away ticket like they are going out of style... no other area can do that..
Belleayre can hire volunteers... Other areas can't....
Belleayre is exempt from taxes.... Other areas are not....
Belleayre is exempt from insurance that others..

 

[ERJ-145CA]

nobody I know has ever paid for a lift ticket at Belleayre...

I've paid for most of my lift tickets at Belleayre, I've only had a few free ones. It was a free ticket that brought me there in the first place, or else I may have never been there. I probably would have just stuck with the Poconos, NJ and VT, with a rare visit to Hunter. Also whenever I'm there I buy lunch at the mountain so I spend money whether my ticket is free or not.

 

[dmc]

I've paid for most of my lift tickets at Belleayre, I've only had a few free ones. It was a free ticket that brought me there in the first place, or else I may have never been there. I probably would have just stuck with the Poconos, NJ and VT, with a rare visit to Hunter. Also whenever I'm there I buy lunch at the mountain so I spend money whether my ticket is free or not.

Wow... way to pump $12 into my tax base.... :sad:

This is a perfect example of preditory marketing...

 

[ERJ-145CA]

......

 

[ERJ-145CA]

You obviously don't know how expensive the food is at Belleayre. I'm usually there 6-12 days a season so it's not just once. Also ski tunings while I wait at the place at the intersection of 28 and the road to Belleayre including the gratuity and buying gasoline. I think it's a little more than 12 bucks. It's maybe 1 trip to Hunter versus 6-12 to Belleayre, plus I'm not the only person, I don't think I personally am propping up your economy, if that's what you think I believe.

 

[thinnmann]

I've paid for most of my lift tickets at Belleayre, I've only had a few free ones. It was a free ticket that brought me there in the first place, or else I may have never been there. I probably would have just stuck with the Poconos, NJ and VT, with a rare visit to Hunter. Also whenever I'm there I buy lunch at the mountain so I spend money whether my ticket is free or not.

We get some free tix, but usually use them to bring people to Bell with us. My family and I skied Belleayre 25 days last season. I just did some quick estimations: Between season tickets, race programs, food, gas, ski stuff, lodging and tips, we spent about $4000-$5000 along the Rt. 28 corridor last winter. And I am cheap. We regularly ski with three other families that go bigger, and we all bring up other random people for days and weekends. This extended group probably puts $40000-$50000 into the economy over a 4 month period. Non-functioning Bellayre = that money goes north....

 

[ERJ-145CA]

.......

 

[catskills]

Belleayre is my favorite mountain in the Catskills for Holidays and Weekends. If Belleayre closes I will not be skiing at Hunter and Windham. Hunter and Windham would be ZOO of people on Holidays and Weekends, if Belleayre closes.

DMC - closing Belleayre would put a world of hurt on a lot of good people in Western Ulster County and eastern Delaware County that are already just hanging on by a thread. Entire towns and communities would suffer and would have to close their doors for good.

What would happen if Belleayre closed:

1. Hunter and Windham will be extremely crowded the first year
2. Hunter and Windham would have a large number of weekends where they would have to turn customers away due to too many people. This has already happend a few times when Belleayre was opened.
3. The following year Hunter and Windham would have less customers than they have now. Reason people will not put up with sking and riding at a place where it is not enjoyable.

Personally, If I were a normal season pass customer at Hunter and Windham, I would hold off at buying the season pass this year until after the decision of closing Belleayre is finalized.

For Hunter and Windham to significantly increase the number of customers, they need more trail acreage. There are only so many customers they can put on a trail safely without more space. Hunter and Windham can not acquire more acreage anytime soon with the Forever Wild Law in NY state.

 

[dmc]

DMC - closing Belleayre would put a world of hurt on a lot of good people in Western Ulster County and eastern Delaware County that are already just hanging on by a thread. Entire towns and communities would suffer and would have to close their doors for good.

Dude.... I KNOW!!!!! What the hell is wrong with you people... really....

I DO NOT WANT BELLEAYRE TO CLOSE

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

You obviously don't know how expensive the food is at Belleayre.

The food at Belleayre is expensive for sure..when I first skied there I was expecting the food to be reasonably priced because it's state run but that's definitely not the case although they do have some decent lunch specials.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Personally, If I were a normal season pass customer at Hunter and Windham, I would hold off at buying the season pass this year until after the decision of closing Belleayre is finalized.
.

I think that's taking it a little too far. Why should people spite themselves?

 

[Trekchick]

Dude.... I KNOW!!!!! What the hell is wrong with you people... really....

I DO NOT WANT BELLEAYRE TO CLOSE

I got it!!!:smile:

 

[ed-drum]

Where does anyone get the idea that DMC wants Belleayre to close? I sure don't. He goes to Belleayre too! What do food prices have to do with anything anyway? Sports arena's food prices are expensive too! We subsidize the building of sports arena's, don't we? No matter where I ski, I bring my own lunch 90% of the time. Occasionally I will buy food at a lodge, like sushi at Hunter or some fries or beer or juice. Food prices? Belleayre has a limited selection of food to begin with. What a myopic point of view. No matter where we live in the northeast, a closing or a cutback at a ski area is going to make other ski areas crowded, whether it's in the Catskills, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire or out west. I don't hate Hunter either, for I bought my new boots there last year. If we get a good snow this year, I might take Russ up on doing BEARPEN!

 

[dmc]

I got it!!!:smile:

thanks...