Belleayre closing due to layoffs

[UVSHTSTRM]

This is some nasty commentary. I guess the best way to balance a $136 billion budget with a $1 billion deficit is on the backs of some seasonal hourly workers who might make $10 bucks an hour. They are really going after the big fish. By the way who pays for their unemployment?

New York State has 583 Authorities. All the board members for these Authorities are appointed by the Gov or local elected officials. They have (illegally) borrowed $41 billion without proper voter approval as required by the NY constitution. Here is a place to start fixing the big money drain in NYS. However, I guess it is easier to fire nameless hourly workers instead of all your crony board members who illegally borrowed all that money for your pet projects.

If you want to read about it here is the link:
http://www.cbcny.org/PubAuthorities.pdf

What was so nasty? Was anything I said not true?

I agree there are probably plenty of other areas to cut spending/meet budget needs, but this is the government were talking about. They look out for there friends at the top, so the little guy always gets it. It's the way it's been and probably will be.

Who pays for unemployment for the seasonal hourly workers? Well probably the same people who pay for it the 7-8 months of the year Belleayre isn't open? So us? Am I right?

 

[skidbump]

Problem is it supports the region.It pretty much breaks even.But its whole purpose is to support economy on the rt 28 corridor.
They have 55 full time yr round employees.They include mt and summer lake.And yes could afford to lose a few but not 48 of 55.That doesnt include fulltime seasonal,ski patrol,ski instructors or the part timers .
Throw into it the 15 or so restuarants, the motels and BnB's and now your looking at a large number of unemployed for a small region.

State isnt going to balance budget on cutting work force.State has to cut spending/waste/fraud.Layoffs will end up costing same amount in long run with welfare/unemployment just a different budget.

Haters will hate and im not here to start a state funding argument. I just wanted to put it out there.

 

[oakapple]

The stories do not suggest that the ski area is in any danger whatsoever of closing. Belleayre has an active year-round program, and it is likely the non-ski activities that would be cut back. I'm sure the ski employees are seasonal, and not affected by this layoff.

There have been plans for many years to build a new housing development, conference center, golf course, and hotel, on privately-owned land adjacent to Belleayre. The AP had a story about it just yesterday (link here), suggesting that the developer still believes it will go forward.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

The land in the Catskills is protected from most development to supply clean water to NYC. So the state created Belleayre to help the local economy because it is hard to grow it yourself if development is so restricted. It's important to the people of the area and many others who like outdoor recreation.


BTW has anybody heard when they plan to open now? They haven't updated their website in a while.

 

[oakapple]

Management at Hunter Mountain and Windham (the two closest ski areas, both privately-owned) very much resent Belleayre. They feel that they shouldn’t have to compete with a government-run ski area.

I certainly wouldn’t support a new government-run ski resort if it were proposed today, but Belleayre was there before Hunter and Windham became what they are now. Belleayre’s terrain is distinct: it is much better for a beginner, for example, than Hunter or Windham, especially the former. I know Windham less well, but Hunter is notoriously packed on weekends during peak ski season. It is certainly in no position to take up the business that goes to Belleayre today.

 

[andrec10]

Management at Hunter Mountain and Windham (the two closest ski areas, both privately-owned) very much resent Belleayre. They feel that they shouldn’t have to compete with a government-run ski area.

I certainly wouldn’t support a new government-run ski resort if it were proposed today, but Belleayre was there before Hunter and Windham became what they are now. Belleayre’s terrain is distinct: it is much better for a beginner, for example, than Hunter or Windham, especially the former. I know Windham less well, but Hunter is notoriously packed on weekends during peak ski season. It is certainly in no position to take up the business that goes to Belleayre today.

Have you been to Windham in the last few years. It makes Hunter seem quiet in comparison on a weekend. Hunter has Hunter one for beginers, even though belleayre does have a better beginer area. Its in more of a position than Windham!

 

[oakapple]

Have you been to Windham in the last few years. It makes Hunter seem quiet in comparison on a weekend. Hunter has Hunter one for beginers, even though belleayre does have a better beginer area. Its in more of a position than Windham!

I was at both last year, but I am more familiar with Hunter historically. It is very much known as a party mountain.

In terms of terrain, I probably should have phrased it differently: Bellayre is superior to Hunter for both beginner AND intermediate terrain. (I am an intermediate skier who sometimes skis a black diamond VERY slowly.) Hunter One seems awfully dull to me, and when I was there several of the lifts didn’t operate.

 

[drjeff]

Problem is it supports the region.It pretty much breaks even.But its whole purpose is to support economy on the rt 28 corridor.
They have 55 full time yr round employees.They include mt and summer lake.And yes could afford to lose a few but not 48 of 55.That doesnt include fulltime seasonal,ski patrol,ski instructors or the part timers .
Throw into it the 15 or so restuarants, the motels and BnB's and now your looking at a large number of unemployed for a small region.

State isnt going to balance budget on cutting work force.State has to cut spending/waste/fraud.Layoffs will end up costing same amount in long run with welfare/unemployment just a different budget.

Haters will hate and im not here to start a state funding argument. I just wanted to put it out there.

Here's the issue that will likely be facing the NYS legislature with respect to their deficit budget and Belleayre (and a whole host of other programs for that matter). I'm fairly involved in the world of dental politics in CT, and when I go and speak with legislators about funding of medicaid services for dental treatment for kids in CT, I can paraphrase their answers in the following way: I hear what your saying and understand the importance of the issue, however in this time of great budget crisis, those same dollars YOUR looking for are also being sought by X,Y,Z (insert things like school funding, roads, medicare, general government operations, welfare, etc, etc, etc). So now for a legislator, they're looking not necessarily line by line at the state budget but more likely in big, gross dollars figures per department, and in situations like that it's often the smaller programs that take the biggest hits first. With respect to NYS and its ski areas and parks in general, ski area wise, well I'm guessing that Whiteface and Gore would take priority over Belleayre, and in the big scheme of things parks wise, I'm guessing that a facility such as Jones Beach would get more priority over Belleayre. Even if the NYS legislature chooses to increase their revenues via increased taxes, the competition for those dollars still won't likely change. Tough situation for sure, but right or wrong (and that's totally open for debate) the programs that feed and educate the "poor" kids in say Harlem, Albany, Utica, Buffalo, etc are looking for the same dollars that go towards the operation of a "recreation facility" from a legislative standpoint right now.

 

[dmc]

Management at Hunter Mountain and Windham (the two closest ski areas, both privately-owned) very much resent Belleayre. They feel that they shouldn’t have to compete with a government-run ski area.

Yup... And Bristol and Plattekill as well not just Hunter and Windham.

certainly wouldn’t support a new government-run ski resort if it were proposed today, but Belleayre was there before Hunter and Windham became what they are now. Belleayre’s terrain is distinct: it is much better for a beginner, for example, than Hunter or Windham, especially the former. I know Windham less well, but Hunter is notoriously packed on weekends during peak ski season. It is certainly in no position to take up the business that goes to Belleayre today.

I gotta jump in on this Hunter sucking for beginners thing...
Hunter has a GREAT beginner area totally separate from the advanced area.. It has an award winning learning center built specifically to handle the beginner experience.. I've run my family through there before and it's great. It's not a fair thing to say that it sucks.

I've seen pictures and heard the complaints here of Belleayre just as crowded as Hunter.. I'm not going to get into the terrain and layout of Belleayre because many people like it - i do not..

 

[andrec10]

Yup... And Bristol and Plattekill as well not just Hunter and Windham.




I gotta jump in on this Hunter sucking for beginners thing...
Hunter has a GREAT beginner area totally separate from the advanced area.. It has an award winning learning center built specifically to handle the beginner experience.. I've run my family through there before and it's great. It's not a fair thing to say that it sucks.

I've seen pictures and heard the complaints here of Belleayre just as crowded as Hunter.. I'm not going to get into the terrain and layout of Belleayre because many people like it - i do not..

+1

 

[dmc]

I was at both last year, but I am more familiar with Hunter historically. It is very much known as a party mountain.

In terms of terrain, I probably should have phrased it differently: Bellayre is superior to Hunter for both beginner AND intermediate terrain. (I am an intermediate skier who sometimes skis a black diamond VERY slowly.) Hunter One seems awfully dull to me, and when I was there several of the lifts didn’t operate.

I figured you were intermediate.. Totally puts this into perspective... Hunter is an advanced mountain with a great beginner area.

Please try to not judge something on one days experience and past stories from the 70's and 80's.. Hunter has slowly become a family area.. Most of he clubs have closed... Restaurants are opening...

You talk of hurting economy in the 28 corridor... Please don't F with our's in the 23A corridor.. thank you

 

[dmc]

Problem is it supports the region.It pretty much breaks even.But its whole purpose is to support economy on the rt 28 corridor.
They have 55 full time yr round employees.They include mt and summer lake.And yes could afford to lose a few but not 48 of 55.That doesnt include fulltime seasonal,ski patrol,ski instructors or the part timers .
Throw into it the 15 or so restuarants, the motels and BnB's and now your looking at a large number of unemployed for a small region.

State isnt going to balance budget on cutting work force.State has to cut spending/waste/fraud.Layoffs will end up costing same amount in long run with welfare/unemployment just a different budget.

Haters will hate and im not here to start a state funding argument. I just wanted to put it out there.

I think those fulltimers are salaried state employees.. I'd check on that - I think along with the salary comes pension and full benefits. Pretty expensive stuff that Belleayre doesn't pay for....

 

[andrec10]

I figured you were intermediate.. Totally puts this into perspective... Hunter is an advanced mountain with a great beginner area.

Please try to not judge something on one days experience and past stories from the 70's and 80's.. Hunter has slowly become a family area.. Most of he clubs have closed... Restaurants are opening...

You talk of hurting economy in the 28 corridor... Please don't F with our's in the 23A corridor.. thank you

Another +1

 

[skidbump]

I think those fulltimers are salaried state employees.. I'd check on that - I think along with the salary comes pension and full benefits. Pretty expensive stuff that Belleayre doesn't pay for....

Yes 55 full time state DEC employees.Yes pension and benefits.
200+ fulltime and partime ski instructors recieve no pension or benefits
maybe 50+ ski patrol including volunteers
maybe 100 seasonal including food services,ski shop and rentals.
Thats quite a few people just on mt without jobs this winter
Yes some do it just for pass but most are there for the pay check.

 

[dmc]

Yes 55 full time state DEC employees.Yes pension and benefits.
200+ fulltime and partime ski instructors recieve no pension or benefits
maybe 50+ ski patrol including volunteers
maybe 100 seasonal including food services,ski shop and rentals.
Thats quite a few people just on mt without jobs this winter
Yes some do it just for pass but most are there for the pay check.

I get it.. I really do.. But all we know is "substantial cuts to the workforce" from Tony and thats it...
Let's hope they can juggle some stuff around save some people.. Maybe some can get early retirement or severance. That would be cool.. And again - Hunter and Windham are hiring so - there's still hope the ones that make a living can continue..

 

[oakapple]

Yup... And Bristol and Plattekill as well not just Hunter and Windham.

According to Google Maps, Belleayre is 2 1/2 hours' drive from NYC, vs. 5 1/2 for Bristol, so I don’t really think of them as local competitors. Once you get into a five-hour drive, you’re talking Vermont. Plattekill is just 30 minutes from Belleayre, Hunter, et al, but it is closed four days a week (other than holidays and snow days).

I gotta jump in on this Hunter sucking for beginners thing...
Hunter has a GREAT beginner area totally separate from the advanced area.. It has an award winning learning center built specifically to handle the beginner experience.. I've run my family through there before and it's great. It's not a fair thing to say that it sucks.

My original post did not contain the word “sucks” or any synonym thereof. Belleayre has better green and blue territory than Hunter does. That doesn’t mean Hunter sucks in any respect whatsoever.

It should also be noted — although I made this error myself in my earlier post — is that green and beginner are not precisely the same thing.

I've seen pictures and heard the complaints here of Belleayre just as crowded as Hunter.

I am not the expert on this, but I would be very surprised if Belleayre were as a rule as crowded as Hunter on a given date. One problem with Belleayre is that its lodges have less capacity than the trails and lifts do.

 

[dmc]

I am not the expert on this, but I would be very surprised if Belleayre were as a rule as crowded as Hunter on a given date. One problem with Belleayre is that its lodges have less capacity than the trails and lifts do.

Well... If you were an advanced skier you could ski the West side all day and pretty much si on and off the Z and if gets crowded ski on and off the Y with no lines... But I guess you wouldn't know abut that.. And thats ok..

Problem is - you see the world through intermediate glasses.. And there's only two ways for intermediates to go top to bottom at Hunter.. Belt and Hellgate... And if you pack a ton of intermediates onto one trail it's not a pretty thing.. Anyone who ski's hunter regularly avoids these trails on weekend days. Belleayre has more of what you desire.. Straight ridge intermediate runs.

 

[180]

+1

But the problem is that large swaths of Hunter One are usually closed on weekdays, including E lift which would qualify as intermediate terrain.

 

[Rambo]

I remember years ago reading about the owner of West Mountain ski area located in the Adirondacks real close to I87 the Northway and Glens Falls NY going to court at least 2 different times trying to get Gore Mountain shut down because he felt he should not have to compete with a State funded and run ski area and he obviously was not successful.

 

[snafu]

I would gather that the majority of NYers(how many millons) would not want their taxes raised to support a 180,000 skier/year mountain that I would bet is bleeding money if you added everything in. I mean $20 weekday tickets and being way family affordable, along with 48 or whatever full time workers (mind you with state benefits and pensions - something us private and small business owners can only dream about) - I'd be shocked if it broke even. Sell it and see how it does as a private hill. Another factor here is I read on Sugarbush's website(I believe) that skier numbers are down from 60 millon to 40 millon over the past ten years or so(its all Powdr's and ASC's fault so this also doesn't bode well for Bellayre - or ALOT of other mountains out there.

With all things considered this is going to pale in comparison with the real cuts that need to be made on a local, state and federal level in the next decade, ain't no way the fed's gonna print our way out of this.