Belleayre closing due to layoffs

[catskills]

Anyway - most of them (180,000 Belleayre Skiers) dislike Hunter - so I expect them to end up in Windham or Plattekill.

DMC your got to be kidding me right. News flash most Belleayre skiers do NOT dislike Hunter. Many Belleayre skiers also enjoy skiing Hunter, especially mid-week.

If you think Belleayre skiers have this hatred for other ski areas you would be dead wrong. Lets face it. Most skiers and riders truly love this sport and will ski where ever they can as long as its not too crowded. Emphasis on not too crowded. Belleayre can get crowded on peak weekends with great snow. Skiers and riders move to where there is the least resistance. Its kind of like OHM's law. Nothing to do with dislike.

IMHO I don't think Belleayre is closing. But just for fun, lets say Belleayre did close its doors. I think 180,000 additional skier and rider visits would have a significant negative impact on the quality and enjoyment at all ski areas in the Catskills and else where. DMC I am sure you ski F and Z lift most weekends at Hunter. Y-Lift when its opened. If Belleayre closed, I would estimate an additional 500 more skiers on Hunter's F and Z lifts on weekends. They will not spend a lot of time in the lodge. This is not the real problem The real problem is the majority of Belleayre intermediate skiers that are not skilled enough to ski Hellgate. Where the hell are they going to ski. There just is not enough lower intermediate terrain in the Catskills to handle the number of Belleayre's lower intermediate skiers, if Belleayre closed its doors.

As for Belleayre being sold. This just isn't going to happen. The NY state politicians have a lot more important things then Belleayre right now.

The worst case scenario is one more ski area closes its doors and joins the NELSAP list. That would be bad for all of us that love this sport.

 

[dmc]

Hunter has taken a lot on negativity from Belleayre skiers on this board... And I've also talked to people AT Belleayre that share a negative view of Hunter when I tell them I live at Hunter. You can even see it in ski club advert where the trips are Belleayre and Windham with not mention of Hunter.
And thats OK... Hunter isn't for everyone..

I'm sure there's a group of Belleayre skiers that enjoy Hunter.. I'm good with that.. i actually have met some midweek..

 

[kartski]

Isn't that just government doctrine? :-D

Hypothetically, could Belleayre survive and possibly thrive under private ownership? Sadly then they'd probably end the midweek discounts:sad:.

The State can close it down, selling would be hard. It's on land owned by the people of the State and that State has a Constitution. To transfer any State Land, It's got to pass the Assembly and Senate, then wait a complete election cycle, pass the Assembly and Senate again and then it becomes a Ballot measure. Hunter tried it to swap land to get the peak of Hunter, it's an expensive form of banging your head on a rock.

As far as Belleayre making money, last season Patterson set opening and closing dates and how many lift could operate on which days. In the end they were allowed to blow the closing date, end of march and stay open. It's probably not a big drain on the over all budget.

If the state could sell something to make money, I believe they own Governor's Is. now. Great location, housing, school, bowling alley, they did rip out the golf course though.

 

[k123]

- At Thursday's hearing, some of the 45 full time employees at Belleayre Ski Mountain who are being offered seasonal jobs instead

- Iwanowicz said the employees would be re-hired as part-time seasonal workers, giving the ski center the same staffing level as last year during the winter season.


Hopefully this won't effect winter operations...

 

[RootDKJ]

C'mon now. If the government really wanted to cut back on non-required spending, there's way bigger fish to fry.

 

[catskills]

C'mon now. If the government really wanted to cut back on non-required spending, there's way bigger fish to fry.

+1

 

[dmc]

C'mon now. If the government really wanted to cut back on non-required spending, there's way bigger fish to fry.

Like what?

 

[tjf67]

The fact of the matter is a couple of people are going to lose there job. The hyped up bantoring is what is annoying. Ther will not close ant time in the near future.

 

[skidbump]

Honestly ,if the state employee unions would have took the furlough option and/or re negotiated union contract this would not have happened As long as union and non union took appropriate cuts i dont see the issue.As a ex union member and shop steward, i think it would be better to negotiate than to just say go ahead lay them off.Same will go for the schedules cuts to dmv and dot. This is just the tip of the iceberg and come 1/1/11 Coumo has no choice but to cut and cut deep.Then it up to us to decide is it better to lose the state amenities or to keep with higher taxes.

And yes there is always fat to be trimmed but to the bone is not practical.

Being told your laid off but can come back at a 20% pay cut and seasonal is impractical for a full time yr round employee. How many are looking to leave just so they can still make a living How many can look at 20% pay cut and do better on unemployment?. I can go to a website and see what every state employee is making and no one on that mountain is getting rich .

 

[skidbump]

The fact of the matter is a couple of people are going to lose there job. The hyped up bantoring is what is annoying. Ther will not close ant time in the near future.

48 out 55 are set to be laidoff .Offered 20% pay cut and brought back as seasonal and seasonal get no benefits.How many people do you know who have families and could take the paycut and benefit cut.I feel that alot wont leave for the pay but will leave for a job with benefits.

 

[dmc]

Being told your laid off but can come back at a 20% pay cut and seasonal is impractical for a full time yr round employee. How many are looking to leave just so they can still make a living How many can look at 20% pay cut and do better on unemployment?. I can go to a website and see what every state employee is making and no one on that mountain is getting rich .

I'm not saying it's good...
but..
In these times - it's not uncommon for someone to take a pay cut in lieu of getting laid off.
I've been involved in 2 of these in the IT world.. I know many others that have as well.

If they can remain state employees and keep service time,benefits and pension. Thats a good thing...

 

[millerm277]

Being told your laid off but can come back at a 20% pay cut and seasonal is impractical for a full time yr round employee. How many are looking to leave just so they can still make a living How many can look at 20% pay cut and do better on unemployment?. I can go to a website and see what every state employee is making and no one on that mountain is getting rich .

It very much sucks for them. On the other hand, there is pretty much no way for a mountain of that size, to need 55 full time employees and all the benefit, retirement and other costs the comes with them.

Much as it's terrible for the 48 people, it's idiotic to waste money by essentially paying far more than you need to for your staff, even more so when it's taxpayer money.

 

[snafu]

Honestly ,if the state employee unions would have took the furlough option and/or re negotiated union contract this would not have happened

BINGO - we have a winner.... *Public* unions have had it very good for a long time, and unfortunately it seems alot of them do not realize how bad the situation is(with falling tax revenues, rampant unemployment etc). Public unions do not like to renegotiate contracts - even if it means cutting jobs. If this is the case that they are doing to themselves, then I do not have alot of sympathy for them. Mind you I have no problem with private unions - they are keen on what market forces can do and have to act accordingly or jobs go away(usually overseas).

. I can go to a website and see what every state employee is making and no one on that mountain is getting rich .

Compared to who? I bet with all the benefits and pension and pay the are relatively well off compared to a similar job at a private mountain.

 

[threecy]

Compared to who? I bet with all the benefits and pension and pay the are relatively well off compared to a similar job at a private mountain.

...or for that matter many taxpayers. Government is not sustainable if government employees have better pay and benefits than the people who pay their salaries (taxpayers).

A few cliches that those in the ski industry have heard of the years, just to drive home the nearly universal low wages:

- A paycheck may also be known as a weekly or biweekly insult
- A career in the industry may also be known as a 'vow of poverty'
- 'The only way to become a millionaire in the ski industry is to start as a multi-millionaire'

 

[krisskis]

I have family that works at Bell and family that lives on the mountain...spoke to 1 yesterday and she said that the full time employees lost their full time status but they can be hired back as seasonal employees. Only 10 people got to keep their full time status. They will be open this year. Dont know what the opening and closing days are, but they will be open.

As for Bell skiers hating on Hunter...I am NOT 1 of them. I personally get bored at Bell after a day there and i have been skiing there for over 37 years. Love springtime there Hunter is a more challenging mountain and is where i will be found the most. As for the crowds at Hunter, i have yet to see it really bad there. IMHO the lines at Bell at the Super Chief are horrendous on the weekends!! I prefer to stay over by the Tomahawk chair and stay away from the crowds. Same goes for Hunter...stay away from the crowds. If you cant handle the terrain, stay at Hunter One. I agree that there isnt much for the lower intermediate to ski on except Hellgate and Belt and even Hell can be a clusterf**k on the weekends...i have seen plenty of carnage on there with people who are over their heads.

DMC...see you at Hunter!!

 

[dmc]

Interesting comments...
http://blog.timesunion.com/stateworker/state-layoffs-his-snow-country/1057/

 

[dmc]

I have family that works at Bell and family that lives on the mountain...spoke to 1 yesterday and she said that the full time employees lost their full time status but they can be hired back as seasonal employees. Only 10 people got to keep their full time status. They will be open this year. Dont know what the opening and closing days are, but they will be open.

As for Bell skiers hating on Hunter...I am NOT 1 of them. I personally get bored at Bell after a day there and i have been skiing there for over 37 years. Love springtime there Hunter is a more challenging mountain and is where i will be found the most. As for the crowds at Hunter, i have yet to see it really bad there. IMHO the lines at Bell at the Super Chief are horrendous on the weekends!! I prefer to stay over by the Tomahawk chair and stay away from the crowds. Same goes for Hunter...stay away from the crowds. If you cant handle the terrain, stay at Hunter One. I agree that there isnt much for the lower intermediate to ski on except Hellgate and Belt and even Hell can be a clusterf**k on the weekends...i have seen plenty of carnage on there with people who are over their heads.

DMC...see you at Hunter!!

I hear ya... See you there..

 

[catskillman]

If those 180,000 skiers and riders decided to relocate to your favorite place to ski and the lift line doubled in wait time, you might give a crap and have a crap.[/QUOTE]

That is exactly why I care. That and I pay NYS a lot of $$ in taxes

 

[catskillman]

If Belleayre closed/downsized (just did not make snow on certain trails and closed X lifts to save $) it would help Platekill which would be nice.

 

[dmc]

If Belleayre closed/downsized (just did not make snow on certain trails and closed X lifts to save $) it would help Platekill which would be nice.

I think it would help Platt too since it's kinda near there and has some good mellow skiing..