Belleayre's Tony Lanza fired by DEC

[bvibert]

i'd go back and i'd pay for it.

Good times!

 

[Rambo]

does this lower the chances of me scoring a free ticket next season? will the eliminate the ski free on your birthday program?

Belleayre had the, ski-for free on your birthday, for a long time. But I did notice that at some point last season that was changed to Ski for 1/2 off on your birthday.

From the Belleayre website:
BIRTHDAY PROMOTION
Ski for 1/2 off on your birthday

Who knows what ORDA will do.

 

[drjeff]

As harsh as it may sound, ANY business(public or private) should be constantly looking at and assesing the need for its staffing levels and also if the manor in which the "boss" is leading that company. If the staffing levels are inappropriate and/or the direction that the company is headed isn't in agreement with what the owners feel it should be, then steps need to be taken. Sometimes those steps may mean people loose their job, other times it may mean that the company makes a change in the "direction" that they're headed. If a business continues to do something say "just because we've done it that way for 20 years" doesn't always mean that that's the right way to be doing things today. And there are plenty of times, where unless one has been in the situation where they have a payroll to make that they really can;t comprehend that sometimes the descisions need to be made for business reasons, not emotional reasons

 

[bobbutts]

loosing a job isn't nearly as bad as losing it at least

 

[marcski]

As harsh as it may sound, ANY business(public or private) should be constantly looking at and assesing the need for its staffing levels and also if the manor in which the "boss" is leading that company. If the staffing levels are inappropriate and/or the direction that the company is headed isn't in agreement with what the owners feel it should be, then steps need to be taken. Sometimes those steps may mean people loose their job, other times it may mean that the company makes a change in the "direction" that they're headed. If a business continues to do something say "just because we've done it that way for 20 years" doesn't always mean that that's the right way to be doing things today. And there are plenty of times, where unless one has been in the situation where they have a payroll to make that they really can;t comprehend that sometimes the descisions need to be made for business reasons, not emotional reasons

Agreed. But, here, it's a state-run ski area, not a for-profit corporation. I think that makes some difference.

 

[Puck it]

A while ago I was wondering where DMC had gone. So I searched out his last few posts. I think this one said it best.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?p=633175#post633175
This place has chased away a lot of good people.

I miss the lil' Ewok too. No one to bust on!!!!

 

[drjeff]

Agreed. But, here, it's a state-run ski area, not a for-profit corporation. I think that makes some difference.

I'm guessing that even New York State, in it's current budget situation, let alone with the ORDA changes with respect to Belleayre, is having to take a closer look at how it's running it's various entities.

I'm sure that there's more than 1 person up in Albany who's trying to figure out how to spend that LIMITED pool of taxpayer money that they have to work with for the entire state, if they might be able to squeeze an extra few million out of the state's "recreation" budget and shift it to say the "food stamps", "medicaid" or even the "school aid" part of the budget.

 

[ScottySkis]

I'm guessing that even New York State, in it's current budget situation, let alone with the ORDA changes with respect to Belleayre, is having to take a closer look at how it's running it's various entities.

I'm sure that there's more than 1 person up in Albany who's trying to figure out how to spend that LIMITED pool of taxpayer money that they have to work with for the entire state, if they might be able to squeeze an extra few million out of the state's "recreation" budget and shift it to say the "food stamps", "medicaid" or even the "school aid" part of the budget.

You mean a political person who cares about his people in NY I like to know their name.

 

[x10003q]

12.5 mill is weak sauce for 175k skier visits. ORDA as a whole is responsible for well over 300 million with about double the skier visits (give or take a couple thou). So how exactly is Bell management killing it for the local economy? I would argue they are doing a terrible job. By the way thats 70 bucks per visit to the local economy, or basically a tank of gas. Thank god for that.

Silly comparison. It is not just about skiing.

To make a valid comparison we need the Bellayre region to do the following:

Build facilities for bobsled, ski jumping, speed skating, xc skiing, and ice hockey.
Hold 200 plus regional, national, and international comps every year.
Convince NYS to build a 90,000 sq ft conf center.
Hold the Olympics twice.
Build a National Training Center for USA winter sports teams.
Have Belleayre triple in size.
Have NYS buy Hunter or Windham (ORDA has WF and Gore).

When all the above happens we can compare the 2 regions for revenue.

 

[Nick]

Any indication on his replacement or was it just manpower reduction? Sorry I'm kinda of skimming here.

 

[AdironRider]

Silly comparison. It is not just about skiing.

To make a valid comparison we need the Bellayre region to do the following:

Build facilities for bobsled, ski jumping, speed skating, xc skiing, and ice hockey.
Hold 200 plus regional, national, and international comps every year.
Convince NYS to build a 90,000 sq ft conf center.
Hold the Olympics twice.
Build a National Training Center for USA winter sports teams.
Have Belleayre triple in size.
Have NYS buy Hunter or Windham (ORDA has WF and Gore).

When all the above happens we can compare the 2 regions for revenue.

Im not saying they are going to match them for every venue, but ORDA does 2800% more in economic activity than Bell, thats not all coming from ski jumps and broke athletes training for a biathalon. 2800%.

Or how bout this comparison. 12.5 million is what one decent hotel (100 rooms or so) will GROSS in one winter season. Not a full year, not a bunch of different places, thats one ok hotel at 80% occupancy. Again, Bell's economic impact is pretty much NON-EXISTANT given their size according to the homers (179k skier visits).

 

[ScottySkis]

Im not saying they are going to match them for every venue, but ORDA does 2800% more in economic activity than Bell, thats not all coming from ski jumps and broke athletes training for a biathalon. 2800%.

Or how bout this comparison. 12.5 million is what one decent hotel (100 rooms or so) will GROSS in one winter season. Not a full year, not a bunch of different places, thats one ok hotel at 80% occupancy. Again, Bell's economic impact is pretty much NON-EXISTANT given their size according to the homers (179k skier ivisits).

The towns around Bell are kind of pour, lake placid is more middle class, so i'm sure that helps orda out.

 

[oldtimer]

"Or how bout this comparison. 12.5 million is what one decent hotel (100 rooms or so) will GROSS in one winter season. Not a full year, not a bunch of different places, thats one ok hotel at 80% occupancy. Again, Bell's economic impact is pretty much NON-EXISTANT given their size according to the homers (179k skier visits).[/QUOTE]


I hate to bring facts or math into any forum discussion as it spoils the fun. BUT, 12.5 million?
Say 100 beds- that means gross of $125,000/room for the ski season. IF we assumed 80% occupancy over a 120 day season (ridiculous on the face of it), you are looking at Grossing $1,300/room night at a hotel in upstate NY? This would make hoteliers very, very happy. From my experience in VT, 80% occupancy would be a dream come true for any hospitality establishment. Midweek is not pretty during non-holiday weeks.

 

[deadheadskier]

Im not saying they are going to match them for every venue, but ORDA does 2800% more in economic activity than Bell, thats not all coming from ski jumps and broke athletes training for a biathalon. 2800%.

Or how bout this comparison. 12.5 million is what one decent hotel (100 rooms or so) will GROSS in one winter season. Not a full year, not a bunch of different places, thats one ok hotel at 80% occupancy. Again, Bell's economic impact is pretty much NON-EXISTANT given their size according to the homers (179k skier visits).

your view of hotel economic activity is tremendously skewed by working at the Four Seasons in Jackson Hole.

There is not a single hotel in all of the Northeast Ski Country that does $12.5M in revenue in a year, never mind one ski season. I worked at the highest revenue hotel in the state of Vermont in 2005, the now Hilton on Burlington's waterfront. 93% occupancy for the year. Average yearly occupancy rate for most ski town hotels in the Northeast is more like 50%. In 2005 that hotel did $15.5M in revenue that year. $11M from rooms, $4.5M from F&B.

 

[catskillman]

Not a RIF termination, it was for cause.

Major conflcit of interest & giving away free season passes to questionable individuals are the reports.

He's screwed, where is he going to find a job now. He'll just have to live up his NYS pention which I am sure is more than sufficient.

 

[AdironRider]

your view of hotel economic activity is tremendously skewed by working at the Four Seasons in Jackson Hole.

There is not a single hotel in all of the Northeast Ski Country that does $12.5M in revenue in a year, never mind one ski season. I worked at the highest revenue hotel in the state of Vermont in 2005, the now Hilton on Burlington's waterfront. 93% occupancy for the year. Average yearly occupancy rate for most ski town hotels in the Northeast is more like 50%. In 2005 that hotel did $15.5M in revenue that year. $11M from rooms, $4.5M from F&B.

That was 10 years ago pretty much at this point. Inflation at work and all that.

The Four Seasons does quadruple the numbers Im talking about, I already took that into account.

Even if you double my estimates, Bell is still pitiful. Thats the argument, not the exact numbers. 179k skier visits is solidly in the mid-tier level for Northeast ski resorts, and their economic impact is probably at the level of Magic/Burke et al that do 100k less in terms of skier visits. Thats the point.

 

[catskills]

Im not saying they are going to match them for every venue, but ORDA does 2800% more in economic activity than Bell.........

Everyone does math a little different these days. The 6 million dollar question is this.

Does ORDA Whiteface and Gore make a profit without the $6.6 million in funding the state provides to ORDA every year. ?

BTW didn't Gore just build a new lodge? Who paid for that new Gore lodge exactly when NY state was slashing the state's government budget.

 

[HowieT2]

Everyone does math a little different these days. The 6 million dollar question is this.

Does ORDA Whiteface and Gore make a profit without the $6.6 million in funding the state provides to ORDA every year. ?

BTW didn't Gore just build a new lodge? Who paid for that new Gore lodge exactly when NY state was slashing the state's government budget.

exactly. Orda isnt on the state budget.

 

[skidbump]

Not a RIF termination, it was for cause.

Major conflcit of interest & giving away free season passes to questionable individuals are the reports.

He's screwed, where is he going to find a job now. He'll just have to live up his NYS pention which I am sure is more than sufficient.

No one actually knows Why Tony was fired. For cause... is to try and deny unemployment benefits.
His pension was not very much his tenure with state was only he length of employment at Belleayre.

 

[x10003q]

Everyone does math a little different these days. The 6 million dollar question is this.

Does ORDA Whiteface and Gore make a profit without the $6.6 million in funding the state provides to ORDA every year. ?

BTW didn't Gore just build a new lodge? Who paid for that new Gore lodge exactly when NY state was slashing the state's government budget.

Maybe you should read your own link before you ask questions.
Quoted from the link:
"If that cut stays intact, we'd have to close all the venues because none of the venues, other than Whiteface and Gore, make money," Martens said at Tuesday's annual state Adirondack Park Local Government Day Conference in Lake Placid. "But what they do is they bring in hundreds of events every year that fill the hotel rooms, fill the restaurants and create about $350 million annually in economic impact."

What new lodge are you talking about at Gore? They refurbished the old red gondola base building summer 2007 in partnership with Lincoln Logs. The main Lodge at Gore was incredibly crowded due to the increased skier visits.

The fact that Gore/WF/Belle are NYS owned does not change the constant need to replace, upgrade, and imrpove the mountains. All 3 have increased skier visits substantially.