Belleayre's Tony Lanza fired by DEC

[AdironRider]

Maybe you should read your own link before you ask questions.
Quoted from the link:
"If that cut stays intact, we'd have to close all the venues because none of the venues, other than Whiteface and Gore, make money," Martens said at Tuesday's annual state Adirondack Park Local Government Day Conference in Lake Placid. "But what they do is they bring in hundreds of events every year that fill the hotel rooms, fill the restaurants and create about $350 million annually in economic impact."

What new lodge are you talking about at Gore? They refurbished the old red gondola base building summer 2007 in partnership with Lincoln Logs. The main Lodge at Gore was incredibly crowded due to the increased skier visits.

The fact that Gore/WF/Belle are NYS owned does not change the constant need to replace, upgrade, and imrpove the mountains. All 3 have increased skier visits substantially.

I also find it funny noone seems to have any argument other than to attempt to discredit mine.

Hotel numbers are off, now its is ORDA actually profitable. Thats not the debate, the debate is that for an area of Bell's size and visitation, their economic impact is next to nil.

 

[catskills]

..... Thats not the debate, the debate is that for an area of Bell's size and visitation, their economic impact is next to nil.

You got any proof or do we just got to believe your statement because you say so?

Is $12.5 million per year just chump change?

Belleayre Mountain Ski Center contributes $12.5M per year to local economy, SUNY New Paltz study concludes

 

[AdironRider]

Are you retarded or just incapable of reading an entire thread?

 

[Harvey]

There's no question in my mind that Bell could be much more successful if it had the kind of investment that Whiteface and Gore get. Whether you agree with the concept of state ownership of ski areas or not, all reasonable people would have to admit that ski areas aren't viable without continuous investment in infrastructure. Bell really had very little of that.

On the other hand the DEC's laissez faire management of Bell also included looking the other way on a significant amount of spending in other areas. The ticket giveaways were more than just the GM giving away a few tickets. I understand why Tony would give away 16,000 tickets. He had no new investment to draw people and nobody seemed to care that he was ticket dumping.

But it's also easy to understand why taxpayers (Hunter, Windham, Plattekill) would resent a ski area that they were subsidizing, undercutting them in a competitive marketplace. If it was me I'd be furious.

I think Bell was ready for a change. While there is bound to be pain ahead, the only other choice was probably more painful. In some ways it reminds me of America. Wake up and face hard reality now, or you're screwed.

I hope for the best for Bell.

 

[catskills]

Are you retarded or just incapable of reading an entire thread?

This place is going down fast. Bye to everyone. I am out of here. Enjoy talking to the likes of AdironRider.

 

[ScottySkis]

Are you retarded or just incapable of reading an entire thread?

I'm not one to criticism someone but you know there may people on these fourms who have mentally retarded family and friends and maybe you use different word next time thanks.

 

[bvibert]

Are you retarded or just incapable of reading an entire thread?

How about if we try to have a discussion without resorting to name calling? Are we still in middle school?

 

[AdironRider]

How about if we try to have a discussion without resorting to name calling? Are we still in middle school?

If you want to be technical I asked him a question, and a valid one at that considering it is pretty clear he didnt bother to read the thread prior to his post. The link he posted was what started the debate to begin with.

If that question is going to cause someone emotional distress, yes, clearly we are still in middle school.

Not everything is something thats "offensive", but if I have totally ruined your day, then Im sorry.

 

[ScottySkis]

If that question is going to cause someone emotional distress, yes, clearly we are still in middle school.

Not everything is something thats "offensive", but if I have totally ruined your day, then Im sorry.

Well my sister is severely mentally retarded and you do offend me, but she still the happiest person i know and love.

 

[AdironRider]

Well my sister is severely mentally retarded and you do offend me, but she still the happiest person i know and love.

I wasnt talking about your sister, or you even.

There needs to be some connection before crying foul IMO.

 

[ScottySkis]

I wasnt talking about your sister, or you even.
O
There needs to be some connection before crying foul IMO.

thanks for PM, its understandable no worries i respond later sorry for thread bump.

 

[Nick]

sigh

 

[JimG.]

It's summer.

Yay!

 

[Mapnut]

I'm late jumping into this thread, but can't Belleayre's relative lack of economic impact be attributed to the absence of anything remotely resembling a town within 10 miles? Lake Placid is clearly an economic engine, benefiting all the more by filling all those beds in winter. I'm not sure about Gore, North Creek doesn't seem to benefit much from it, but how about Lake George?

 

[skiersleft]

I'm late jumping into this thread, but can't Belleayre's relative lack of economic impact be attributed to the absence of anything remotely resembling a town within 10 miles? Lake Placid is clearly an economic engine, benefiting all the more by filling all those beds in winter. I'm not sure about Gore, North Creek doesn't seem to benefit much from it, but how about Lake George?

Lake George is dead in winter. Most hotels close entirely or at least midweek. Most businesses also close. I stay there when I ski Gore because the hotels that are open are incredibly cheap given that it's their off-season.

 

[legalskier]

I'm late jumping into this thread, but can't Belleayre's relative lack of economic impact be attributed to the absence of anything remotely resembling a town within 10 miles?

I doubt the townspeople of Pine Hill, Fleischmanns, Shandaken, Arkville and Margaretville would agree that they are "anything remotely resembling a town." If you take the time to stop and patronize the B&Bs, hotels, restaurants, pubs, bakeries, farm stands, artists, craftspeople, etc, as I always try to do, you'll see they're pleased that Belleayre acts as a multi-millipon dollar economic engine for many miles along the Route 28 corridor.
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2012/03/22/news/doc4f69e647c458c408613165.txt
That, despite the fact that development is highly restricted in the Catskill Park.

 

[Mapnut]

Well, villages at least. For Belleayre, skiers from the metropolitan area have the option of day-tripping, while if you drive all the way to Whiteface or Gore you pretty much have to stay over. My point was meant to be that Belleayre can't be expected to contribute more than it does.

By the way, in my definition a town has to have most of the following: An elementary school, a supermarket (general store N.G.), a hardware store, a post office (and a zip code), selectmen, and not being part of a larger entity called a town.

 

[AdironRider]

Well, villages at least. For Belleayre, skiers from the metropolitan area have the option of day-tripping, while if you drive all the way to Whiteface or Gore you pretty much have to stay over. My point was meant to be that Belleayre can't be expected to contribute more than it does.
QUOTE]

That scenario (Bell, not Gore/Whiteface) describes pretty much every major New England player as well, excluding for arguments sake Sugarloaf and Saddleback. I dont know the stats for every single player in the market, but I do know for a fact that several "daytrip" type places you describe do well over 70 bucks per skier visit in economic impact. So whats their secret?

 

[Harvey]

I believe Gore is the biggest employer in North Creek in the winter, and a significant employer year round. Gore has a major impact on North Creek and Warren County. Real estate sales, groceries, construction trades, restaurants. The business owners I know definitely look forward to ski season. We own property BECAUSE of winter activity, but visit in other seasons because we own property.

I know less about Bell, but I do know that when dramatically reduced ticket giveaways this season, business owners in the area wrote an letter to the Governor asking him to allow the practice again. (BTW I strongly disagree with ticket dumping).

Proximity is helpful but it isn't everything. Whiteface is a distance from Lake Placid but still crucial to the town.

 

[Mapnut]

I dont know the stats for every single player in the market, but I do know for a fact that several "daytrip" type places you describe do well over 70 bucks per skier visit in economic impact. So whats their secret?

Well, Mt. Snow for instance is surrounded by a huge resort. That's where the $70 goes. Development is restricted around Belleayre - does anyone know exactly what the park/watershed restrictions are that affect Belleayre? Apparently it's feasible to build a resort there.