Best Tips for Adv. Intermediate moving from Blue to Black

[JimG.]

We're all wired a little different. Sometimes its; hands forward, hip forward, edge awareness, playing w/ turn radius, comfort on terrain and conditions. What ever works. My biggest breakthough was more ankle flex.

IMO, from what I see in the slope, the differences between the intermediates to the advance is both hip forward and ankle flex. Without these, you can't make those pretty turns.

Totally agree... and when you're teaching you have to be careful to say what you mean.

"Lean forward" might get you a bow instead of hips forward.

"Hips forward" without ankle flex will lead to "in the backseat".

"Bend your knees" without ankle flex leads to "in the backseat".

"Hands up" without hips forward and ankle flex lead to exactly what Mattchuck describes.

The key combo of "hips up and forward, hands up, knees and ankles equally flexed" is the athletic stance you want.

But it's awfully hard to teach all that and make it all stick in one lesson. At the intermediate going to advanced level, small victories are the goal because they all lead to improvement and the sum leads to advanced skiing.

 

[Paul]

Totally agree... and when you're teaching you have to be careful to say what you mean.

"Lean forward" might get you a bow instead of hips forward.

"Hips forward" without ankle flex will lead to "in the backseat".

"Bend your knees" without ankle flex leads to "in the backseat".

"Hands up" without hips forward and ankle flex lead to exactly what Mattchuck describes.

The key combo of "hips up and forward, hands up, knees and ankles equally flexed" is the athletic stance you want.

But it's awfully hard to teach all that and make it all stick in one lesson. At the intermediate going to advanced level, small victories are the goal because they all lead to improvement and the sum leads to advanced skiing.

Jim, what can you recommend to help get the "ankle flex" light to go on. I pretty much understand it in concept, but are there any good drills or visualizations to help drive the point home?

 

[JimG.]

Jim, what can you recommend to help get the "ankle flex" light to go on. I pretty much understand it in concept, but are there any good drills or visualizations to help drive the point home?

Saying that students should flex their ankles in equal proportion to how much they flex their knees always seemed to work for me, but that's more of a "feel" thing than a drill thing. Same for making sure there is shin/boot tongue contact and that may not in itself lead to good ankle flex.

For drills, I used the "shuffle feet/thousand steps/hop turn" progression. I'd have students shuffle their feet while skiing down an intermediate pitch. That's shuffling in every phase of the turn. Keep shuffling. Repeat.

Then, I replaced the shuffling feet with picking feet up in alternate fashion while skiing the same run. The emphasis was on making sure the tips and tails of the skis were an equal distance off the snow. Keep stepping. Step faster and quicker. Repeat.

Then, we moved to hop turns...both feet off the snow at the start of the turn. The emphasis is again on making sure tips and tails are an equal distance off the snow. Keep hopping. Hop faster. Repeat.

Now ski a run normally. You'll find it is difficult to make sure the tips and tails are equidistant from the snow unless you're in good balance. That comes from the ankle, the key balancing joint in skiing. You should now feel more balanced skiing normally.

 

[Paul]

Saying that students should flex their ankles in equal proportion to how much they flex their knees always seemed to work for me, but that's more of a "feel" thing than a drill thing. Same for making sure there is shin/boot tongue contact and that may not in itself lead to good ankle flex.

For drills, I used the "shuffle feet/thousand steps/hop turn" progression. I'd have students shuffle their feet while skiing down an intermediate pitch. That's shuffling in every phase of the turn. Keep shuffling. Repeat.

Then, I replaced the shuffling feet with picking feet up in alternate fashion while skiing the same run. The emphasis was on making sure the tips and tails of the skis were an equal distance off the snow. Keep stepping. Step faster and quicker. Repeat.

Then, we moved to hop turns...both feet off the snow at the start of the turn. The emphasis is again on making sure tips and tails are an equal distance off the snow. Keep hopping. Hop faster. Repeat.

Now ski a run normally. You'll find it is difficult to make sure the tips and tails are equidistant from the snow unless you're in good balance. That comes from the ankle, the key balancing joint in skiing. You should now feel more balanced skiing normally.

Cool, thanks! I've seen you mention those before, now it is in a little clearer context for me. I've never liked doing them, though... ;-)

 

[mattchuck2]

Lighten the F up. :roll: I'm just conveying what's worked for me, and as many here can attest, I truly am a radical skier...

Sorry . . . I thought I was being light . . . It's kind of hard to express emotion through typing. Usually what I type comes across harsher than what I say.

Saying that students should flex their ankles in equal proportion to how much they flex their knees always seemed to work for me, but that's more of a "feel" thing than a drill thing. Same for making sure there is shin/boot tongue contact and that may not in itself lead to good ankle flex.

Usually I tell people to jump in the air and land. The position that they land in is the position I tell them to ski in. Most of the time, it's a pretty athletic stance (you don't normally see people land on their heels, for example).

I also use the 1000 step/shuffle/hop turn progression . . . Great drill - not only for balance and body position, but for two footed skiing, too.

And, you're right about ankle flexion (or any flexion, for that matter). It's a lot more feel than it is something that can be told to someone. I usually have people ski down a mellow pitch making normal turns while bouncing up and down (as if they are dancing to a song) - just to get the feel of what it's like to have different amounts of flexion in their lower bodies. I don't really recommend to anyone that they jam on their bootcuffs, or yank their hands forward, or excessively bend their knees . . . I like to have people try to feel it for themselves . . . when they reach the right level of flex, they can usually figure it out.

Although, you didn't even get into using a progressive flex through turns (useful for, say, tightening up a turn radius). I expect a full report later ;-)

 

[JimG.]

Usually I tell people to jump in the air and land. The position that they land in is the position I tell them to ski in. Most of the time, it's a pretty athletic stance (you don't normally see people land on their heels, for example).

Good idea...anything to promote flex is good.

I find alot of people are naturally stiff (no pun intended) and resist loosening up and bending their joints. Because skiing is somewhat counterintuitive, this seems to get worse as soon as they get on snow.

So, jumping around a bit helps lighten the mood and loosens folks up (again, no pun intended).

 

[spresso81]

Jim,

Can you explain when you should use a hop turn?

I know there have been times that I have done this probably out of instinct but I have never properly learned there execution.

 

[Greg]

Sorry . . . I thought I was being light . . . It's kind of hard to express emotion through typing. Usually what I type comes across harsher than what I say.

No worries. It was early this morning and I was cranky. Didn't mean to jump on you so harshly...

I do see your point though. I've seen the forced robotic arm position before.

 

[JBYRD22]

Learn to use your poles...somebody wrote about a light pole touch and not a plant...thats good. Just remember to be nice and loose. Tight skiiers waste energy and dont let their skiis do their job. Jump turns are for slopes that are soooo steep you think you are in free fall. The type of runs that if you fall, you will still make it to the bottom!

 

[JimG.]

Jim,

Can you explain when you should use a hop turn?

I know there have been times that I have done this probably out of instinct but I have never properly learned there execution.

1) Very steep and tight places. Rock lined chutes where pitch is 40 degrees +.

2) At the edge of a trail and you want to turn around and not ski into the woods to do so.

3) When you are in trouble and need to decend with some kind of speed control.

 

[Greg]

1) Very steep and tight places. Rock lined chutes where pitch is 40 degrees +.

2) At the edge of a trail and you want to turn around and not ski into the woods to do so.

3) When you are in trouble and need to decend with some kind of speed control.

The condition of the surface may require it too, no? e.g. very heavy cruddy snow, or broken crust...

 

[ctenidae]

The condition of the surface may require it too, no? e.g. very heavy cruddy snow, or broken crust...

Definately. And sometimes, it's just cooler.

 

[JimG.]

The condition of the surface may require it too, no? e.g. very heavy cruddy snow, or broken crust...

I try to minimize up and down motion because of snow conditions.

Because it just makes you more tired much faster.

 

[skiprob]

Nice thread

I am glad I spent the time looking at all the posts.

I can only repeat in different terms what has already been said.

The hips forward/hands forward/f&ck the turn/joints stacked issue: I think we are looking for alignment between the ankles/knees/hips over the fronts of the boots. Each joint will flex some, no one should be overflexed or underflexed.

I've heard a female instructor use the phrase, "Push with the bush, not the tush."

The only other thing that I could offer to stress the ankle flex is to stand on one ski. I never realized it until last year, but I can do this for an extended period of time now...even when my daughter pulls or turns or twists the free leg.

While standing on one foot/ski, pay attention to all the micro changes going on in the lower leg; the small adjustments to maintain balance are the refined motor skills that you learn through skiing a lot.

To me the intermediate plateau is when a person is learning to change their skiing from using gross motor skills to using more refined motor skills. Does anyone remember using their upper body to initiate turns?

I used to take the Night Adult program at Jiminy Peak. It was six weeknights with a one hour lesson. We would get one or two drills to work on. I always followed it up with weekend skiing. You have to get the mileage.

It's all about the journey and the people you meet. Enjoy and good luck.

 

[Marc]

I try to minimize up and down motion because of snow conditions.

Because it just makes you more tired much faster.

Good way to trigger an avalanche too...

 

[Beetlenut]

Hi, The ultimate lurker here:

In reading this thread, it really touched on something that I struggled a while with, in trying to make the next step in skiing. I always FELT that the ankles were key in holding my balance through the turn, but the problem I was having was equipment related. If the collar and/or powerstrap of my boot was too tight, when I tried to flex my ankle, or drive into the turn, the rebound of the boot would throw me into the backseat. So not only did I have to try and stay forward with my upperbody to keep the ankle flexed, I also had to drive even harder with my knees to overcome the stiffness of the upperboot. Once I finally realized this, I made some equipment changes, and my skiing was so much more enjoyable and controlled. You don't have to have the most expensive equipment, but you have to understand what set-up works best for YOUR body mechanics so that you can stay balanced over your skis. Your technique is only as good as your equipment set-up will allow. Just an observation that helped me advance.;-)

 

[dmc]

I try to minimize up and down motion because of snow conditions.

Because it just makes you more tired much faster.

And when faced with seriuos crust it's almost better to just try and keep the tips above the crust... If your ski goes below the crust then it has to force it's way back up through the curst and that scuks...