Big Burke announcement

[VTKilarney]

$25-$30K is nuts no matter where. I'd rather take a few trips out west with that kind of coin and then just day / weekend trip it where the snow is good in the East.

It just shows you the influence that Burke Mountain Academy has on the mountain. BMA has been the glue that has held the mountain together.

 

[VTKilarney]

That is why (I think) the hotel is so important for the vibrancy of the area and getting families to realize the amazing values and strong skiing that is available to them. I know this may hit the wrong chord with locals who want Burke to be sleepy forever, but let's face it, that would be nice but is unrealistic in the long-term while having a mountain that remains open to the public...

I absolutely agree.

 

[Masskier]

Your analysis omits price trends, but that's fine. It is what it is. My real estate agent friends did not say that property is not moving. They merely said that it is moving at a significantly reduced price, which has put pressure on the early purchasers. But it's nice to see that units are moving, at whatever price.

I'm perplexed that you didn't know that some of the first purchasers in your project were also investors, but what do I know. If that is incorrect, then there is definitely some misinformation out there.

Analysis, What analysis? I was simply pointing out the facts. Any idiot with half a brain can see the trend in prices are going up.

Your perplexed? I'm even more perplexed why you think some of the first Buyers were investors.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone[/QUOTE]

 

[VTKilarney]

Analysis, What analysis? I was simply pointing out the facts. Any idiot with half a brain can see the trend in prices are going up.

Your perplexed? I'm even more perplexed why you think some of the first Buyers were investors.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

[/QUOTE]

I'm just repeating what people have told me. You haven't given any evidence that prices are going up, but it's not worth discussing, frankly.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

 

[Masskier]

No, actually I gave you a link to the MLS to support what I said. which is current. Not a link to an ad from 2007 that you provided to support what you said. I agree it's not worth the time to discuss.

 

[VTKilarney]

No, actually I gave you a link to the MLS to support what I said. which is current. Not a link to an ad from 2007 that you provided to support what you said. I agree it's not worth the time to discuss.

MLS prices that are lower than in 2007 show that prices have increased? I guess we can just close the conversation there.

 

[Edd]

$25-$30K is nuts no matter where. I'd rather take a few trips out west with that kind of coin and then just day / weekend trip it where the snow is good in the East.

You think folks are renting seasonally, like that? I'd assume it's multiple parties generating those numbers. You'd need money to burn to spend that much. Just buy at that point.

 

[VTKilarney]

You think folks are renting seasonally, like that? I'd assume it's multiple parties generating those numbers. You'd need money to burn to spend that much. Just buy at that point.

Never underestimate the money that BMA parents have.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The Condo market continues to improve. The strongest demand is by far in the high end Condos. There's been lots of sales and deposits in the past 12 months. And prices are certainly on the rise.

That's kindof surprising to me, unless you're basing that off the baseline from the crash.

I'm perplexed that you didn't know that some of the first purchasers in your project were also investors, but what do I know. If that is incorrect, then there is definitely some misinformation out there.

If the project is remotely worthwhile, they usually are.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Never underestimate the money that BMA parents have.

BMA? Go check out Stratton and Stowe prices sometime. We are talking penny pinchers here with these rates, at least in the nicer units that are ski in-ski out, as compared to those other mountains...

 

[VTKilarney]

BMA? Go check out Stratton and Stowe prices sometime. We are talking penny pinchers here with these rates, at least in the nicer units that are ski in-ski out, as compared to those other mountains...

That would not surprise me one bit.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

 

[Edd]

BMA? Go check out Stratton and Stowe prices sometime. We are talking penny pinchers here with these rates, at least in the nicer units that are ski in-ski out, as compared to those other mountains...

I'm so naive. And poor, evidently.

 

[VTKilarney]

You think folks are renting seasonally, like that? I'd assume it's multiple parties generating those numbers. You'd need money to burn to spend that much. Just buy at that point.

Look at property taxes in Vermont and you will see why buying doesn't make sense for many even with rent this high.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

 

[thetrailboss]

BMA? Go check out Stratton and Stowe prices sometime. We are talking penny pinchers here with these rates, at least in the nicer units that are ski in-ski out, as compared to those other mountains...

Let's be honest though, that is apples to oranges. Really it is. I'm pretty sure that folks are skiing now at Stratton. As for Burke? Looks like three more weeks. Then you have the loss on the other end of the season. Not to mention that many places have FAR better amenities than Burke. So really apples to oranges.

The same with pricing too. Sure, $500k may be a steal if you are from Southern New England and have two six-figure incomes, but the average household income in the NEK is a tiny fraction of that.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Let's be honest though, that is apples to oranges. Really it is. I'm pretty sure that folks are skiing now at Stratton. As for Burke? Looks like three more weeks. Then you have the loss on the other end of the season. Not to mention that many places have FAR better amenities than Burke. So really apples to oranges.

The same with pricing too. Sure, $500k may be a steal if you are from Southern New England and have two six-figure incomes, but the average household income in the NEK is a tiny fraction of that.

I agree, apples and oranges. Keep in mind these are all mainly second homes, so many of the buyers/owners are earning salary in the big city and not in the NEK (or elsewhere in VT). With that said, when the differences are 3-5x vs. other mountains, it does lead to a cost-benefit analysis by the buyer which only should trend the better properties at Burke more toward the other mountains, although probably never to parity. Of course, I agree mountain management is important/pivotal to making this happen. If the ski school, food, grooming and marketing all suck, all bets are off...

Also, on the point about renting vs. buying as it pertains to BMA. Many of the families that are renting from BMA have younger children who aren't yet in the academy. It is so difficult to get into BMA that it would be silly for them to buy so they mainly rent for the season until they know that the child (or children) are into the academy, then they usually buy. Regarding property taxes, they are really high almost anywhere, in this price bracket property taxes aren't usually the reason why people do/don't buy, even in VT.

 

[deadheadskier]

Why are the parents renting or buying at all? Doesn't the Academy have dorms for the students?

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Why are the parents renting or buying at all? Doesn't the Academy have dorms for the students?

Dorms start for 9th graders (8th grade winter term). Anyone younger than that needs to stay at home with a parent. Also, a fairly good portion of the Academy dorm students' parents buy condos/houses...remember, these are hardcore skiing families and they are skiing somewhere, and many of them choose to ski weekend where there kids will be...

 

[BenedictGomez]

Keep in mind these are all mainly second homes, so many of the buyers/owners are earning salary in the big city and not in the NEK (or elsewhere in VT). With that said, when the differences are 3-5x vs. other mountains, it does lead to a cost-benefit analysis by the buyer which only should trend the better properties at Burke more toward the other mountains, although probably never to parity.

I disagree. In addition to the apples-to-oranges aspects discussed that make the other mountains generally more desirable, future expected return on sale has to be calculated into the cost-benefit analysis. More often than not, markets tend to be relatively efficient, and the lower prices for QBurke properties than Stowe, Stratton etc... that were discussed are generally lower for logical reasons.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

I disagree. In addition to the apples-to-oranges aspects discussed that make the other mountains generally more desirable, future expected return on sale has to be calculated into the cost-benefit analysis. More often than not, markets tend to be relatively efficient, and the lower prices for QBurke properties than Stowe, Stratton etc... that were discussed are generally lower for logical reasons.

No kidding, but I don't think a 3-5x discount is justified, even given all the issues we all note. My point is resale should go up given that the 3-5x gap is unjustified as time trends, and that should be part of your cost-benefit analysis. Also, affordability factors in as well. If I only have 700k to spend, I think if some families were made AWARE of Burke, they'd buy a slopeside there vs. a condo/house several miles from the mountain, as would be the case at many other mountains. I think the big problem at Burke right now, besides the services which I think will come as an echo effect should skier visits rise, is awareness. Also, if you believe crowds continue to grow at other mountains vs Burke (I'm looking at you, Loon, Waterville, Stowe, Sugarbush, So VT mtns), there may be a flight to (relatively) uncrowded mountains over time.

We could talk about an investment hypothesis all day, but there's actually a good hypothesis to invest at Burke, especially now that the hotel is going in to build this awareness that should lead to better trends for everyone (set aside any type of economic recession which would affect everyone)...

 

[BenedictGomez]

if you believe crowds continue to grow at other mountains vs Burke (I'm looking at you, Loon, Waterville, Stowe, Sugarbush, So VT mtns), there may be a flight to (relatively) uncrowded mountains over time.

We could talk about an investment hypothesis all day, but there's actually a good hypothesis to invest at Burke, especially now that the hotel is going in to build this awareness that should lead to better trends for everyone (set aside any type of economic recession which would affect everyone)...

In terms of the future of the sport, demographically I'm more concerned with the potential opposite of the bolded.