Big Burke announcement

[riverc0il]

No doubt open is better than old school closed. No argument from me about that one.

 

[the original trailboss]

I think you missed the point of my comments - I was not disparaging any future plans, only asking how the new owners are going to live up to their own promises/comments concerning the "character" and "personality" of the of the Burke we all know. These are their remarks,not mine!

 

[thetrailboss]

I am a relative Burke newbie, but have spent a lot of time at the mountain the last two seasons. I also am a bit nervous about the changes, however, I do sense that the people who are making this happen do care a lot. They are from the NEK and are (I hope) going to do the 'right thing'. For instance, in speaking with Rachel earlier this week she says she's looking forward to the changes. I guess it can only be a good thing for her to be positive. I think we should embrace change and be excited about it. If you want old school still then a lot of those places are closing and will be gone forever. I for one am happy Burke has been 'selected'. The alternative would be much worse.

Depends on what the "change" is we're talking about.

The "old school" thing is what Burke is and what the marketing folks are marketing it as. As TOTB said, it's what they are saying.

The person you were talking about is happy because it will hopefully mean job security and, FWIW, the former owners were very strict about what employees could and could not say about the business. So I'd take those comments with a grain of salt.

I think the bigger concern is the community at Burke and trying to keep that in place while making the business sustainable. But I think the worry is if the balance is tipped too much to one side.

 

[riverc0il]

If they have promised to retain the character and personality of Burke, they will fail miserably. It is already changing. The best they can do is limit the damage and differentiate themselves from other resorts due to a more laid back vibe. It will never again be old school. My most recent trip report from Burke was actually entitled "Out With the Old School". One comment I made was that in many ways, the experience has improved. But it definitely ain't old school any more.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Depends on what the "change" is we're talking about.

The "old school" thing is what Burke is and what the marketing folks are marketing it as. As TOTB said, it's what they are saying.

The person you were talking about is happy because it will hopefully mean job security and, FWIW, the former owners were very strict about what employees could and could not say about the business. So I'd take those comments with a grain of salt.

I think the bigger concern is the community at Burke and trying to keep that in place while making the business sustainable. But I think the worry is if the balance is tipped too much to one side.

what worry? It has to shift to be sustainable now. Local income can't float the bills these projects are demanding. The idea of community is out the window, they need numbers and numbers that carry wallets, watching another american dream unfold. its nice rhetoric though, feels nice.

kind of like jay is unchangeable, feels nice, tried to buy a season pass today and was told to come back later because the computer was down, used to have paper you could fill out, I suppose they are doing me a service though, I hadn't been to tramside in almost 2 years, some nice steps and grocery facilities.

I am curious who carries this torch into the ground when Bill steps down.

 

[xlr8r]

New flyover video of the soon to be built hotel\lodge\conference center.

I built an actual model for Google Earth using Sketch-Up. If I submitted it correctly, the 3D model should be visible in Google Earth.

Any idea how the grading will be between the lodge and the base of the Mid-Burke Express. I hope its not another one those schleps uphill just to get from lodge to lift

 

[from_the_NEK]

Any idea how the grading will be between the lodge and the base of the Mid-Burke Express. I hope its not another one those schleps uphill just to get from lodge to lift

I figure it is going to be about a 20 ft vert uphill schlep from the new lodge to the lift. However, they have a carpet lift on the plan (purple line between the lodge and the lift) for those that can't handle walking uphill.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Its kind of to bad they are going with the Jay like structures, with the slope angle there it would seem they could have gone with a walk out design, dropped the building height a few floors and preserve some of the openess the lower field offered. Save the high rise for the lower lodge and wow factor.

I did like ginn's idea of the farm development. Wonder if that will ever come back onto the table. certainly seems better than parking garages everywhere.

if they are going to grade something they should be grading the run out from the lower lift to the mid burke lift, hell, thats where a magic carpet would be better utilized IMO

 

[Steve@jpr]

Sorry about the computer system burping (though, given the proclivity toward same-as-it-ever-was, maybe we should just back up the truck and replace the computers with several dozen abacuses, some slate and some chalk), but you bring up a good point-we probably chould have taken your name and info and run the #cc when the system came back up. Problem being, and we can lay blame in lots of direction for this, not just up the 242, writing names and credit cards down in any capacity that doesn't lock them in somehow is now sort of frowned upon; changeable alas.

Curious though, given the dread of what we've done/doing/will do to Jay Peak, why the interest in a SP? Don't get me wrong, and I'm not being trite, just wondering what it is that motivates as, clearly, the Ice Haus, Waterpark and heated stairs have also deconstructed the mtn experience too.

I realize marketing is a bullseye for boo-birds and will certainly take the expected, if low-brow, slugs for that and will also spare you the screed'n associated with we think is still the same here; there are lots of pages and we don't all need to be on the same one.

Glad to hear you'll be around for at least another year; who knows, maybe you'll be around for the torch buryin'

what worry? It has to shift to be sustainable now. Local income can't float the bills these projects are demanding. The idea of community is out the window, they need numbers and numbers that carry wallets, watching another american dream unfold. its nice rhetoric though, feels nice.

kind of like jay is unchangeable, feels nice, tried to buy a season pass today and was told to come back later because the computer was down, used to have paper you could fill out, I suppose they are doing me a service though, I hadn't been to tramside in almost 2 years, some nice steps and grocery facilities.

I am curious who carries this torch into the ground when Bill steps down.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Sorry about the computer system burping (though, given the proclivity toward same-as-it-ever-was, maybe we should just back up the truck and replace the computers with several dozen abacuses, some slate and some chalk), but you bring up a good point-we probably chould have taken your name and info and run the #cc when the system came back up. Problem being, and we can lay blame in lots of direction for this, not just up the 242, writing names and credit cards down in any capacity that doesn't lock them in somehow is now sort of frowned upon; changeable alas.

Curious though, given the dread of what we've done/doing/will do to Jay Peak, why the interest in a SP? Don't get me wrong, and I'm not being trite, just wondering what it is that motivates as, clearly, the Ice Haus, Waterpark and heated stairs have also deconstructed the mtn experience too.

I realize marketing is a bullseye for boo-birds and will certainly take the expected, if low-brow, slugs for that and will also spare you the screed'n associated with we think is still the same here; there are lots of pages and we don't all need to be on the same one.

Glad to hear you'll be around for at least another year; who knows, maybe you'll be around for the torch buryin'

A SP? Because I live 15 min from a mountain I love. Because the mid week pass is a good deal. Because I enjoy making turns. because I miss skiing with friends I only ever see on lift side of J. should I go on?

Oddly enough you haven't done anything to the hill, so as long as I can stomach the mid week price (which is great FWIW) I will resume being a contributor to JPR for skiing. I also love the rink, great addition to our local area and the price for its access is great.

My dig at the computer system had little to do with the service, it was more just commentary on the larger changing environment, the ideology that more complex is always better. I merely feel there is a market for selling a more simple experience.

 

[Steve@jpr]

No, you've said plenty, thanks; I get it. And glad the price still works. And a good part of me agrees with your perspective too.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

steve

A SP? Because I live 15 min from a mountain I love. Because the mid week pass is a good deal. Because I enjoy making turns. because I miss skiing with friends I only ever see on lift side of J. should I go on?

Oddly enough you haven't done anything to the hill, so as long as I can stomach the mid week price (which is great FWIW) I will resume being a contributor to JPR for skiing. I also love the rink, great addition to our local area and the price for its access is great.

My dig at the computer system had little to do with the service, it was more just commentary on the larger changing environment, the ideology that more complex is always better. I merely feel there is a market for selling a more simple experience.

 

[thetrailboss]

So here's a question for folks who are still local at Burke: other than the one or two days in January, how many days have they run the Willoughby Quad this year?

 

[from_the_NEK]

So here's a question for folks who are still local at Burke: other than the one or two days in January, how many days have they run the Willoughby Quad this year?

AFAIK those couple of occasions were the only time it ran this year. They may have spun it up a couple times here and there, "just to keep it loose".

 

[thetrailboss]

Just found this.....very interesting and some good vintage footage of Burke.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sounds like Burke had a good season.

BURKE -- With exciting plans on the horizon, Q Burke Mountain Resort is poised for better and better seasons, but this past season saw an improvement, thanks to an infusion of funds from the new owners.
[FONT=Verdana, Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Friday, May 10, 2013[/FONT]

Can someone who has a full subscription to the Cal Rec post the full article?

 

[from_the_NEK]

Unfortunately I don't have a full subscription to the Cal Rec and I didn't get to read the hard copy either :???:

In other rumor news, according to a friend saw some renderings, the restaurant and bar in the new Mid-Burke Hotel/Lodge is going to be pretty swanky. I think the "replacement" to the Bear Den will be in the more day/local skier oriented lodge that will be built as the replacement to the current Mid-Burke lodge.
EB-5 money can't be used to renovate a building. It can only be used for new construction, which may be part of the reason why the current Bear Den is likely going to the wrecking ball.
Speaking of wrecking balls...

The most jaw dropping part of this conversation I had was that the Sherburne base lodge may also see the wrecking ball as part of phase 2-3. Rather than building a entirely new hotel/lodge to lookers left of the Sherburne HSQ, it sounds like the existing lodge may get flattened and replaced by a entirely new hotel/lodge. I don't know of anything wrong with the current lodge. IMHO, the upstairs bar/restaurant is really nice with high ceilings and a really nice fireplace (even though it has been converted to gas ). They are currently doing some pretty major interior renovations to the lodge. Creating a ski locker/cubby space where the rental shop was and turning the bag check area into a merchandise store. I haven't yet heard where the rental shop has been moved to.
Tearing down the Sherburne lodge sounds a bit extreme to me but I know useable ground space is an issue around the base area, so maybe this is the best solution they could come up with and still be able to use EB-5 money?

 

[SkiRaceParent]

I really hope they don't rebuild Shelburne and instead they focus their build efforts elsewhere. It would seem like a waste to me and definitely would not fly with with the conservation-conscious locals of the NEK!

 

[from_the_NEK]

Is this what we will see?

 

[thetrailboss]

Nice logos there, FTN.

Interesting about Sherburne. I heard that the previous ownership was really begging the Burkeside owners to sell out so that they could demo those condos and expand the base area lodge over there.

I'd like to see that EB-5 money go into more snowmaking for Burke personally. Don't widen the trails--just run a few more lines, add some more compressors and pumps, and you're good to go.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I'd like to see that EB-5 money go into more snowmaking for Burke personally. Don't widen the trails--just run a few more lines, add some more compressors and pumps, and you're good to go.

I don't think EB-5 money can be usedfor aproject like that since the money invested has to "produce" a certain return of jobs created. Snow making costs a lot of money with few additional jobs easily tied to it. The kind of investment has to come out of Q-Burke's pockets I think. Same goes for other "improvements" to the skiing experience (trails expansion, lifts, etc).

On another note, the mountain has been pretty quite this summer other than some expansion of lower mtn MTB trails. There hasn't been really any movement on the new hotel/lodge.
The Act 250 permit has yet to be approved and I can't really tell if the following is what is holding up the progress.

A neighbor (owner of the "Stone House") has filed a Party Status Petition stating the new development will create a traffic issue that will harm their home and make accesing the driveway of their home unsafe.

Initial Complaint - http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13-5/Compiano-Ryczek Party Status Petition.pdf
Q-Burke response - http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13-5/Applicant response-Compiano.pdf
Complaintant Response to the response - http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/...ty Status Petition response June 11, 2013.pdf

That corner is kind of blind and it is easy to speed through there . Burke proposed some reasonable modifications to make things safer. However, other than an outright redesign of the road, I think the owner is going to have issues. I could see removing the curve altogether and bring the road down from the Mid-Lodge to a 4 way intersection with Pinkham Rd and Rexford Rd. The vast majority of traffic would have to make right turn going up the Mountain Rd. Traffic coming down would have to Stop and turn left.
Seems pretty simple, however I'm sure there are a whole range of additional permits and such that would need to be waded through to do something like this.

Solution A:

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